M2e Colette

[Breng77]

I used to take shell game for the surge trigger, but I stopped taking it.  The issue is that it is only really good with tomes in the 6-8/9 range.  You are unlikely to want to spend stones on it very often, and any higher tomes probably can be put to better use as chances are your draw is worse.  

 

I partial to to arcane res, Caberet choreography , and practiced production.  I often take practiced production on college because it means I don't NEED to take Cassie or Angelica.  And when I do take Cassie she can be more aggressive without risking losing the upgrade.

[Sordid Strumpet]

The reason it's good is that it gives you card draw if you have your free stone available and don't need it for dove summoning, and I find I end up with tomes worth 6-9 in my hand quite often. And if I have to cheat to get it off, I'll throw in a 10 of tomes as well if the alternative is failing the prompt altogether, and that way at least I either get a good card back, or draw a bad card that I then won't flip and can discard for defensive/southern hospitality.

 

[mythicFOX]

<modhat>  

It was suggested this become the pinned Colette discussion thread.

So it's done.

Carry on.

</modhat>

[Trample]

With Cabaret Choreography how many doves are you expecting to summon over the course of the game? You have a two soulstone investment in the upgrade and a possibly a card, soulstone, or artificial soulstone per dove. I would guess most folks are summoning two in the first round (one with artificial), maybe one in the second round (using artificial), and maybe one after that if you run into a round with nothing better to do with one of your prompts. Does that sound right? Your prompt is likely too valuable otherwise (or you have other AP to spend) after those summons to use it further. So you get three doves for 2 real stones and 2 fake stones (plus AP and cards).

I'm curious what folks are experiencing. I haven't played Colette myself yet, so I'm interested in what you've learned. 

[Boomstick]

Depends on the game for me. I'm a fan of using a dove on Colette for + Ca flips and tend to make her more of a movement machine with disappearing act than a prompt machine. So I often find myself pulling 2-3 doves from her hat first turn, moving folks around a lot turn two and either pulling out more birds, teleporting, or prompting depending on what's needed from there on out. With her having the + flips to Ca I rarely found myself stoning for the birds unless I don't have what I need in hand on the rare instance I need to cheat it in.

Of course, my primary opponent mostly plays Gremlins, so keeping my model count high with doves helps a lot with activation control.

[DrayZed]

Doves are incredibly versatile, and it's a great idea to summon at least one per turn. Granting Colette the extra movement allows you to help out a key model that is deep within the thick of the fight. The doves themselves also lend to that, with their buffs to damage and defense creating moments where your models can really shine. Overall, The doves are definitely worth the upgrade cost and slot on Colette, I'd say.

[Trample]

OK, thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to doing some work with this crew soon.

[Hinge]

don't forget the upgrade also includes "all together now".  While I do not use this often, when I have, it has been amazing (as well as surprising my opponent).

I average about 4 doves a game. 

[orkdork]

Got some more games in with the "elite killer crew" version of the list. In a recent game, I went full offense. It was Guard the Stash and Hunting Party was in the pool. I was against Molly.

Colette, Choreo, Production, Reservoir

Cass, IE

Hank, IE

Myranda, IE

2 Coryphee

Dove summoning on turn 1 helped with my low activation count. On turn 2, I charged in full-bore, pushing the fight to just past the stash markers and starting the slaughter. My cheat hand went to horror duels, so my prompts fizzled horribly, but it didn't matter much, as the Myranda/Cerberus, Hank, Cass and Coryphee/Duet ripped through the enemy models.

For other games, I have been dropping hank for a performer and Angelica (love her model, but I'm not sure she makes the cut).

Another game against Nicodem went similarly: pressed him off the midline, allowing me to claim my quarters with single models and actually make it hard for him to get both of his. By turn 3, I'd torn down Yin, Izamu and most all his summons (hanged are trouble, for sure). I think this game was as much about him overextending Izamu as anything else. He hadn't seen the reactivate duet/cerberus madness before, so I caught him a turn earlier than he anticipated.

I gotta say, it's crazy when playing a crew where you can lose Hank or the Duet and still have insane kill-pressure. And with Production, it's pretty easy to do a single marker-based scheme with one of the turn 1 doves.

Between Take Prisoner (easy for Colette) and Hunting Party, I could see this being a common crew for the new pool. You don't totally lose the activation game due to prompt-reactivates and doves, and the kill-pressure is out of this world.

It does have one issue from a design principle point of view: Colette only really "force-multiplies" a single beater per turn. Which makes me wonder: could this crew actually benefit more from dove +Dmg flip spam than from prompt?

Also, I should mention that did get schooled by a very good Perdita player on an open board. It was exactly the kind of game/board that makes you go buy Mei Feng

[Mutter]

Who's Hank?

[Adran]

1 minute ago, Mutter said:

Who's Hank?

Its Howard Langstrums nickname in the story. 

[Mutter]

Ah, thanks ...

[Trample]

19 hours ago, orkdork said:

 

I gotta say, it's crazy when playing a crew where you can lose Hank or the Duet and still have insane kill-pressure. And with Production, it's pretty easy to do a single marker-based scheme with one of the turn 1 doves.

Between Take Prisoner (easy for Colette) and Hunting Party, I could see this being a common crew for the new pool. You don't totally lose the activation game due to prompt-reactivates and doves, and the kill-pressure is out of this world.

It does have one issue from a design principle point of view: Colette only really "force-multiplies" a single beater per turn. Which makes me wonder: could this crew actually benefit more from dove +Dmg flip spam than from prompt?

 

To some extent then you're assigning your master the task of scheme running while everyone else focuses on killing. With that level of elite crew that actually isn't a bad thing. I would guess it mitigates what I believe would be a limitation, which is Colette ability to keep up. Her walk speed + 10' prompt range + LOS requirement can make it somewhat difficult to be where you need to be to keep your team prompted. 

I like this. Will definitely have to try it out!

[orkdork]

3 hours ago, Trample said:

To some extent then you're assigning your master the task of scheme running while everyone else focuses on killing. With that level of elite crew that actually isn't a bad thing. I would guess it mitigates what I believe would be a limitation, which is Colette ability to keep up. Her walk speed + 10' prompt range + LOS requirement can make it somewhat difficult to be where you need to be to keep your team prompted. 

I like this. Will definitely have to try it out!

That's kind of what's crazy about Colette and PProduction: it's so AP-efficient for scheme running. For 1 AP (the dove) and Colette's 0 action (placing the scheme that PP eats at the end of the turn), you can get 4 markers down just about anywhere you want them!

As far as keeping Colette in range, that is an issue. Understudy-prompts help, but I think you'll likely want your first PProduction marker to go where you want Colette to be so that she can disappearing act to it when needed.

Speaking of which, why do folks so often run PProduction on someone other than Colette? Having the marker go down at the start of her activation opens up Disappearing Act for her, as she is so often the one who uses it (being so slow). Is there something I'm missing?

[Breng77]

They take 3 upgrades on her and lack a slot?  The downside of it being on her is that it makes doves unable to drop markers turn 1.

[orkdork]

On 2/25/2016 at 10:07 AM, Breng77 said:

They take 3 upgrades on her and lack a slot?  The downside of it being on her is that it makes doves unable to drop markers turn 1.

Yeah, the turn 1 dove dropping (har har) seems a good enough reason. I really don't like it on Cassandra if possible, however, as Cassandra so often wants to go first to get Southern Charm up.

Angelica is a happy candidate, too, unless she's going to be in danger.

As I think on it more, it seems a likely thing to have to plan at the start.

[Sordid Strumpet]

On 25/2/2016 at 4:31 AM, orkdork said:

Speaking of which, why do folks so often run PProduction on someone other than Colette? Having the marker go down at the start of her activation opens up Disappearing Act for her, as she is so often the one who uses it (being so slow). Is there something I'm missing?

Angelica holds my PP. It's an important upgrade, but Angelica is rarely an important model to go after, so it's a little more likely to be around at the end of the game. I don't have it on Colette as I tend to activate her late in the turn, having already dropped 0-action scheme markers where I need them, so disappearing act on her is not as crucial. There are two reasons for activating Colette late (IMO):

-your models are in position, so you don't have to waste prompts on moving something

-your opponent has moved most of their crew and probably revealed their plans, so prompts are more likely to make a significant difference (or are useful for getting a model out of trouble with the push)

If you have the surge trigger, a third reason for activating late exists: your opponents hand will be drained. At that point, being able to draw a card (be it a bad one you then won't flip in a duel or a good one you can cheat) makes much more of a difference. You're also more likely to know if you can afford to dump the free soul stone for a tome on prompt instead of saving it for her defensive trigger. Lastly, you can cheat your high cards at the start and keep a 6-9 of tomes  (or a 6+ of anything for guaranteed prompt) in your hand to make your opponent think you're holding back a high card and keep them a little more cautious, then use that 6 of tomes to draw a free new card after prompting.

[Talismaniical]

Resurrecting this over a month later..

Starting Colette as well soon and I had a quick question...

Is Hank actually really good for her crew? I prefer to stick to themes and fluff only (losing with grace every time, of course), so I've only bought her box set and some coryphee (soon Angelica... SOOOOOOON) for the time being and I'm a bit nervous about being as flimsy as a wet paper bag on the table.

[Adran]

Hank is a really good prompt target.

The Corephyee (both singly and in duet form) are also decent prompt targets. They probably won't put out as much raw damage as Hank, but they ought to hit more often. So you can do well without Hank. 

 

 

[Breng77]

Coryphee hit more often and are a good deal more durable (especially as the duet).  

 

I rarely take hank with Colette (but I rarely take him at all).  But I also don't play particularly in theme either.  But in theme the duet and Cassandra give you some decent offensive power.

a list I just tried with devastating effect was the following.

Colette 4 cache

-practiced production 

-seize the day

-cabaret choreography 

myranda

-imbued energies

2x coryphee

december acolyte

performer

malifaux raptor

3x mechanical dove.

 

like I said not in theme but it was very effective, you could switch a few things up and have a similar effect with Cassandra and Angelica replacing Myranda, and the acolyte and replacing the raptor with a mannequin or performer.  It would not be quite as good but it would still be pretty effective.

[Jordon]

I've played with both Hank and the Duet quite a bit and will often have one or the other in every list I run with Colette. So personally my thing with the Duet vs Hank is that the Duet are way more hit and miss. What I mean by that is that the Duet can be amazing counters to whatever the opponent brings, other times however they can do down way quicker than a 14ss model should. Hank is usually consistent with his performance and while he lacks the diversity of the coryphee, he does what he was intended to do with extreme effectiveness. 

Don't get me wrong, I love the coryphee/duet and the challenge they bring is usually worth the versatility they offer. Just be prepared to enter a love/hate relationship with them as they go from wrecking your opponent with impunity to facing someone like perdita, who can shoot them off the board in a single shot (single coryphee that is).

I'm also a fluffy player so I actually took the misstep model and modelled in a skirt and hair ribbon and made her an un-official showgirl. My conscience is clean    

[Talismaniical]

11 minutes ago, Jordon said:

I'm also a fluffy player so I actually took the misstep model and modelled in a skirt and hair ribbon and made her an un-official showgirl. My conscience is clean    

That was entirely the reason I was willing to look into Hank! lol Miss Step seemed easy enough to add some frills to. I know this isn't the Miniature Matter's forum, but if you have pictures of it, I'd be super thrilled to see it.

 

 

Thanks for all the quick answers everyone! The league I'm joining starts next week so I was expecting to have to miss out on a weeks worth of points waiting for an answer. 

[Breng77]

With the Coryphee, I have found that you need to merge into the duet ASAP otherwise I usually find people will kill one Coryphee, as the individuals are not very durable.  Beyond that if they face something that ignores armor, they can go down quickly, but the same is true of Howard, and he has a lower defense, and no self heal. They each have their own ups and downs, but I find the Coryphee to be more consistent in my games due to all the positive flips, and 3 general AP.

[Adran]

On 08/04/2016 at 9:39 PM, Breng77 said:

With the Coryphee, I have found that you need to merge into the duet ASAP otherwise I usually find people will kill one Coryphee, as the individuals are not very durable.  Beyond that if they face something that ignores armor, they can go down quickly, but the same is true of Howard, and he has a lower defense, and no self heal. They each have their own ups and downs, but I find the Coryphee to be more consistent in my games due to all the positive flips, and 3 general AP.

Yes, if you're running individual corephyee, learn what can kill them in the next activation, and if they are at risk, merge. 

[Breng77]

The issue for individual coryphee is that a lot of things Can kill them.  I guess if your opponent has not hurt either, has no models that can chain activate, nothing that ignores armor, nothing that can reliably do 4 damage per swing etc.. Then you can keep them separate, but I find mostly I attack with one and the other merges.