M2e Colette

[Fazza92]

I haven't Carlos and Joss at moment 

Is finished the time of Coryphee?

[Mxbedlam]

6 minutes ago, Fazza92 said:

I haven't Carlos and Joss at moment 

Is finished the time of Coryphee?

Coryphee are ok. There's a LOT of armor ignore in my local meta so I tend to stay away from them because that's pretty much all they have as far as defense. 

30 minutes ago, spooky_squirrel said:

I've found that Joss is particularly vulnerable to either pushes or slow (barring Blood Ward/Warding Runes), and that both combined make Joss a complete liability. By himself he lacks the ability to get places in a timely fashion.

Yup, but Colette can counteract that a bit thanks to Prompt and Joss with Warding Runes is nearly immortal. 

[Fazza92]

Yeah,in my metà too there's a lot of outcast that ignore,oxfordian mages with all masters..but there's 0 guild players so I can evade Perdita...Ok,so are disappeared the Colette lists with Howard/step too ,and Carlos is the new star I read..

 

[Mxbedlam]

yeah I think the consensus is that Howard is just to much of a point sink these days and it is all too easy to take him down. Carlos is definitely the new hotness. Envy is still a solid choice too

[Adran]

Duet is still super fast but fragile. Howard is probably still the most powerful prompt target, but now he can only be targeted once per turn you are often better hiring 3 less powerful models.

Carlos is a solid choice, but does not hit anywhere near as hard. He is just a real pain to kill. I'd probably expect to use him in a similar way to Joss. 

 

[Sybarite]

Well considering Carlos isnt even out in stores yet, some of us still play with other models ^^

[iamfanboy]

On 6/8/2017 at 6:27 AM, Sybarite said:

Well considering Carlos isnt even out in stores yet, some of us still play with other models ^^

Yeah, wasn't Carlos supposed to be out this month? I want him quite a bit.

[Bengt]

6 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

Yeah, wasn't Carlos supposed to be out this month? I want him quite a bit.

thewarstore seems to have him in stock. Some other stores says he'll be in stock at the end of the week. In general Wyrd's release dates are the end of said month.

[Tephel]

Hi everybody!

What do you think about this?

50 SS Arcanists Crew
Colette Du Bois + 2 Pool
- Cabaret Choreography (2)
- Seize The Day (1)
The Captain (10)
Carlos Vasquez (9)
- Stunt Double (0)
- Imbued Energies (1)
The Firestarter (7)
- Imbued Energies (1)
Gunsmith (7)
Gunsmith (7)
Union Miner (5)

It can be a competitive?
Suggests are acepted!

Tnks!!

[Adran]

It looks like a very generalised list . Its got a little hitting threat, its got some durable options, its got a decent amount of speed for scheming,.

Personally I wouldn't pick it for any one of the strategies, because it doesn't do any one thing as well as you could do it. 

If you were trying to pick an all comers list, then my question is why? 

If you are wanting to pick a list to learn the game with, then I wouldn't suggest this because you have lots of different models (and if I was going  to suggest a list to learn with, I try to include multiples of models because that makes it easier).

If you are picking it as a fixed list to make purchases for, then buying this list will give you plenty of extra models to adapt your list. 

If you are picking it to play a fixed list event and they haven't told you any of the strategies then its probably competitive. Although, assuming equal skill, you will lose to a specialised list in games their list is built for, but beat them in games they aren't built for. 

One of my favourite things about malifaux is that you don't build fixed lists. You wait and see what the table looks like, and what strategies and schemes there are, and then build your list to do them. 

[Mxbedlam]

you also have 7 models and not one is a dedicated beater. Captain can do ok but for 1 less SS you can take Myrandabus or Envy + Imbued. Focusing too hard on the burning aspect just to make Gunsmiths good is a bit too much of a set up. Much easier to just take good models if you want to be competitive. 

[spooky_squirrel]

15 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

you also have 7 models and not one is a dedicated beater. Captain can do ok but for 1 less SS you can take Myrandabus or Envy + Imbued. Focusing too hard on the burning aspect just to make Gunsmiths good is a bit too much of a set up. Much easier to just take good models if you want to be competitive. 

Envy is real.. though I've been taking him with Well Rehearsed so that I can use all of the other Scheme Marker shenanigans to push him into a shooting position before he activates. Even if you don't get the blast trigger, that damage spread, the focus-for-a-card plus an additional focus (if needed) gets you an attack on triple positives (barring cover) and double positives (base) on damage. That's usually enough to get your opponent to pay attention to the organ grinder and not your schemers.

Focusing on burning can be a trap. If you are relying on burning to get stuff done, the first time you run into a nihilist crew will feel like a train wreck. Even here in faction we have ways of ignoring, mitigating, or even exploiting burning.

[Tephel]

Tnks everybody for the suggests.

I like play colette in every builds...

so i try to create a new one... but you're right! focusing on burning condition is not the best way.

Tnks a lot!!

[KingCrow]

Haven't seen much talk about Colette's new upgrades so I wanted to give my thoughts:

For me, the Dancing Blade looks like a good upgrade to finally try a tanky, tar-pit Colette.  I know her bread and butter is Prompt but with all her defensive triggers, it might be possible to play her this way.  Automatic Slow is nice and that could pair up decently with the Scorpius to try and paralyze something.  I don't see it being a much better idea for this build than before, but it's still an interesting idea.

Audience Participation is kind of meh to me.  Getting free focus is nice but let's be honest, there are better models that could get Prompt'd (and thus benefit more from the free focus) than most of the Showgirls.  Probably the best damaging Showgirls are the Coryphee but they already have positive's built in to their attack so it just helps with the damage flip but with all the positives, it sounds like fishing for the BJ.  Now if Colette could've had the ability to make other models Showgirls, that would've made this upgrade a LOT better.  She did get that free 0 action though that lets her use the first AP from an enemy minion model that is next to a friendly scheme marker.  Wow, this is specific and so very situational although there have been some strong minions released lately.  Still seems Meh for two SS.

All in all, I really don't see myself taking these over her previous upgrades unless I am trying something finicky and out-there.  Anyone else have any experience with these yet? Any thoughts they'd like to share?

[Sybarite]

I feel they dropped the ball on this one. Colette really needed something else, something good, after the prompt Cuddle and Sandeep is still better at most things. 

[Mxbedlam]

Yeah I just don't see Colette doing much that Sandeep can't do better. Honestly, even without the Prompt cuddle I don't know if she would stand up to Sandeep's sheer versatility. 

[Jordon]

Agree completely. Colette desperately needed something to compete with prompt and these upgrades are not that. They just seem to add a gimmic play style that is very difficult to actually play around.

Given the dramatic boost to some of our other masters. I sort if feel like Colette has dropped a tier, at least for me anyway. The change to prompt was a good one, but it also kind of puts it in league with every other obey in the game. It's still fantastic, but ultimately it kind of feels like it's most of what she has going for her now. I was really hoping for these upgrades to give her something new and fresh but it looks like I'll be waiting for some time. 

The problem with the upgrades themselves is that Dancing Blade requires two upgrades (lady's secret) to be worth it but your having to use a resource (scheme markers) that requires your crew to support as Colette herself cannot drop enough markers on her own to actually use this consistently. Not only that but by burning nearby scheme markers, your dramatically affecting her potential survive ability as scheme markers are the only thing that keeps her alive. Ultimately your better off prompting an actual beater as Colette is just not a beater model.

Audience Participation gives focus to models who hardly make use of it. Ice Dancers are too fast to stay within range and are designed as scheme runners, not beaters. Performers have no Cg and again are not really designed to punch things. They're better off using sirens call and attacking enemy scheme markers, in which case your not really benefiting much from focus. Oiran are... well Oiran and thus not worth hiring - even with focus. Lastly you have Coryphee who loose the buff if they form the duet but are still probably the best model to actually benefit from focus as they are actual melee models.

Her new (0) is just way to situational and is probably not worth the effort to what amounts to making a 4-5ss model "super slow".

[Mxbedlam]

57 minutes ago, Jordon said:

Agree completely. Colette desperately needed something to compete with prompt and these upgrades are not that. They just seem to add a gimmic play style that is very difficult to actually play around.

Given the dramatic boost to some of our other masters. I sort if feel like Colette has dropped a tier, at least for me anyway. The change to prompt was a good one, but it also kind of puts it in league with every other obey in the game. It's still fantastic, but ultimately it kind of feels like it's most of what she has going for her now. I was really hoping for these upgrades to give her something new and fresh but it looks like I'll be waiting for some time. 

 

Prompt is actually way worse now than most Obeys. You cannot Prompt models to do non-attack actions more than once, you cannot target enemy models. It does have the 3" push benefit and a smaller TN, but otherwise it has less utility than a standard Obey and her only other real trick is Disappearing Act which has its limits as well. 

[Jordon]

1 hour ago, Mrbedlam said:

Prompt is actually way worse now than most Obeys. You cannot Prompt models to do non-attack actions more than once, you cannot target enemy models. It does have the 3" push benefit and a smaller TN, but otherwise it has less utility than a standard Obey and her only other real trick is Disappearing Act which has its limits as well. 

Yeah that's definitely true. It's less utility but easier to pull off with the low TN and built in suit. So I think best case is that it's just different than most other obeys, better or worst depending on the situation. Typically I can top deck a prompt which keeps my hand pretty healthy.

Disappearing act is nice but it's usually a first turn thing for me if I can get the markers out. Otherwise i'll just prompt + walk for a similar effect.

[Bengt]

14 hours ago, Jordon said:

They're better off using sirens call

Siren's Call is opposed so Focus is useful, but I agree it's not "2 SS upgrade" useful.

In general I can only agree that Colette could really have used another AP spender that didn't take a ton of setup, we already have All Together Now for that... :|

[spooky_squirrel]

On 9/18/2017 at 8:07 AM, Jordon said:

Her new (0) is just way to situational and is probably not worth the effort to what amounts to making a 4-5ss model "super slow".

I got to use this ability, and it helped tremendously with the scenario. It's an unopposed delayed obey effect. What you get out of it is very situational, yes, but it can help when you use it. What I got the least utility out of with her new upgrades was the saber trick as a (1), but I had not constructed her crew to support it. The focused condition was actually nice to have when I had line of site to things, allowing me to cycle cards and go for effects that I wanted. She still generates a ton of scheme markers and can still move things around the board, which are still good abilities in general. It falls on your scheme selection to determine how powerful they are.

One of the take aways from the Wave 5 stuff that I'm picking up on is that there's more reason to think about what you're going to take into a scenario than there was before (excepting Sandeep, because he's flexible enough to still run virtually any scenario). Combine that with the direction that GG2018 appears to be going with the testing, and we're looking at a less predictable scheme selection. This could help make games in general less predictable, and if we hit that state, then those generally good abilities can be used to adapt and overcome.

 

Now if you're looking for an optimized way to complete a specific and predictable scenario, you'll probably want to look at another option if it doesn't involve markers or interactions--but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[Jinn]

So, after playing a game against Zoraida with the new Powerful Control upgrade I find myself wondering why prompt was nerfed the way it was. I had thought that the problem with Colette that caused the nerf was that she could grant extra attacks and movement to a big beater such as Langston, but if that is the case why did they give Zoraida the ability to obey Nekima to charge? Not only this, but if YOU bring a beater like Langston against Zoraida, she can obey him to charge your models. Unlike Colette, Zoraida can obey a model to walk and then obey a second time to make them charge.

And all of this is on top of Zoraida's bewitch and voodoo doll shenanigans. 

Bringing this back to Colette, I feel that both of the new upgrades she got are very lackluster in the face of her new power level and the general power increase of other masters. I feel that her defences have also weakened considerably with the number of damage reduction ignoring abilities now in the game. I also feel it is unlikely her situation will change with errata soon as she was nerfed relatively recently and had held a dominant position for some time.

I know this post is pretty whiny, but I think discussion is one of the best ways to discern the general feeling as to whether or not a master is underpowered, in tandem with tournament reports.

[dancater]

Yeah

Its an interesting thing, I liked the Colette nerf because I hated the prompt-prompt-prompt play-style.  

However the problem quickly became that Colette does not really have much else to do with her AP that approaches 'Master' level.  I don't want Colette to be a simple prompt machine but otherwise she struggles, she is durable in circumstances but by no means a tank, definitely not a beater and its her crew which schemes not her.  So she took a solid hit from the nerf, but she was strong so it made her more mid-pack.

However the recent Book 5 updates have really smashed her, suddenly a great many weak-middling crews and masters have been buffed and Colette got basically not much if anything power wise and really not a whole lot style wise.  The result is she has plummeted in terms of her position power wise and is increasingly frustrating to play even casually.

Undoubtedly her crew is strong, Performers are good, Cassandra solid and generally the theme models are all good but Colette herself is now pretty useless.  She has some survivability, does the single prompt/model thing and can provide a few tricks to her crew plus a soul stone and (+) twist battery on occasion but by herself she is useless and her crew buffing generally pails next to what similar masters can do.  Since Book 5 many masters feel functional and characterful, sure some are more power than theme but their is a lot of either or both.

Poor Colette is kinda really drifting into the space where she is neither.      

[Fictor]

Colette is the worst Arcanist master right now, it's a fact, and the last Colette was a prompt machibe for one reason, prompt is the only thing she have, the rest of her habilities are so bad in comparation and in a tournament you want use the best hability.

His miniatures are good, yes, but you can use these miniatures like Carlos better with other masters, because other master are better.

[Flint]

Colette was good because of Prompt and Scheme Markers play. Prompt become restricted and dropping scheme markers (further than few inches from own deployment zone) - risky after Shifting Loyalties. Looks like after turn 2, when crew will be send into positions there is not much for her to play, nothing significant at least. Her attacks are weak and You need to pay SS for other actions (with moderate usefulness). Summoning Doves is nice but comes with high price  (8+ with masks).