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LulleK

M2e Colette

374 posts in this topic

On 4/7/2017 at 2:17 AM, Trixter said:

I was faced with a serious issue. I'll need to deal with experienced Guild player (Sonnia/Perdita/Lady J) in typical GG matchup. I expect enough LOS blocking and different cover terrain. But really worry about durability which isn't strong side of Colette crew. I'm ready to loose one / two models per turn. But I still don't realize how to score 10 VP before 4th turn end (after which I assume I'll have no models to score).

If we only talk about scheme pool (without strategy) - which two is the best for Colette under Guild's pressure? What models you'll suggest and with which roles?

Considering that there's a whole big thread in the Guild section partly about how Frame For Murder is basically free VPs for their opponent? I'd start there. Colette also avoids the pitfall of being super killy so she's unlikely to give away the full VP amount on it.

Inspection would force them to make some hard choices about hunting down models and splitting their crew - and Guild may not have the mobility to move for both corners and maintain a presence in the center.

Dig Their Graves would also be surprisingly hard, I'd think, since they'd have to carefully plot where to drop the Scheme Markers in order to kill your guys whereas you can spray them across the table for free and spend your AP killing.

Set Up would be good for much the same reason.

And of course, there's always Claim Jump. Always.

Colette is surprisingly hard to kill, and so is Cassandra provided you always have Southern Charm up. One horrible thing I did to a beginning Perdita player was charge an Oiran into her and nail her with the No Witnesses trigger so she couldn't attack any Showgirls.

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Tried a brand new colette crew out this weekend for Guard Stash. My list was:

Colette (Nothing Up My Sleeve, Reservoir)

Carlos Vasquez (Practiced Production, Stunt Double)

Joss (warding runes)

3 Oxfordian Mages (Temporary Shielding, Runes)

Perfomer

Raptor

the idea was to put Joss and carlos on stash markers and use mages to bounce people out of the way. The performer was there to stay in the back field and harass scheme runners. It worked like a charm. Carlos is crazy tanky and with stunt double can remove scheme markers pretty easy. Had plenty of control with the mages to keep things out of combat and slowed.

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Did anybody try McTavish with Colette? Seems like they would like each other. Great prompt target, and she can feed the gator with markers.

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6 hours ago, Sybarite said:

Did anybody try McTavish with Colette? Seems like they would like each other. Great prompt target, and she can feed the gator with markers.

I've done it once or twice. It works about like you'd expect. My only issue is that unlike Joss or Carlos, McTavish provides no M&SU or Showgirl synergy for the rest of the crew. And personally, I like him with a few Swampfiends for his own boosts.

I will admit, the few times I took him I didn't focus on feeding him markers. There were a few incidental snacks, but nothing to make it silly.

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Hey all, so I've decided that I'm going to really push to learn how to play Colette this year, seeing as I've only played her twice before.  She's such a different Master from anything else in Arcanists though that I'm not particularly sure of what I should be doing / looking for, and I don't think reading through 15 pages of somewhat outdated material is a very efficient way of going about that :P So, how is she post-errata?  What upgrades do people like to bring with her?  What does she like to do playstyle-wise in scheme heavy or scheme light games?

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People will kill me but, IMO, post-errata the better choice to do with Colette is put her in a box and let others do the job xD

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@Fictor is right, I will disagree with them, because one of the best things about Malifaux is that there's very little in terms of 'right' and 'wrong' ways to play the game. I probably wouldn't bring Raspy in a scheme-heavy pool, but that doesn't mean someone else hasn't figured out a new and fun way to do so.

@retnab, as far as post-errata Colette, she's more fun to play and play against than old Colette. The reason: she has more things on her card than Prompt, and more reason to use them. I find myself leaning further and further away from a single big beater with her (not that I was bringing Howard often anyway) and more towards a few medium hitters and some schemers. Dec. Acolytes, Union Miners (fantastic for All Together Now, and always one with Carlos), Carlos and/or Cassandra. Coryphee if I really need mobility and pain-bringing ability.

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@Boomstick I've found that dropping Carlos in with a couple of Ice Dancers gives me more mobility than I need. At a tournament last month Carlos ended up travelling roughly 22" (prompt for a push/walk (8"), his (0) to push another 4", and his charge threat) from corner deployment to kill something that was near the centerline corner in the first turn. The Ice Dancers had no problem getting up into the scrum either. Colette, on the other hand, had to use her disappearing act to place herself up the table just to get into position to participate. The Ice Gamin and Silent One were both in the backfield with a "corner deployments are terrible for us, could we not get flank instead?"

 

Outside of that? It's great being able to play Colette and not have my opponent roll their eyes and expect Howard Langston. I already played a different way: Ice Show described above is how I played her pre-errata (Cassandra instead of Carlos) and I'm working out something else that's going to exploit Carlos burning and Rail Worker buffing and tanking.

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On 5/7/2017 at 11:50 PM, Fictor said:

People will kill me but, IMO, post-errata the better choice to do with Colette is put her in a box and let others do the job xD

But her job is giving Minions and Showgirls the ability to Interact as a (0). And spreading her AP around to other models with bonus movement on top. And being nearly impossible to kill short of "ignores triggers".

I'm not sure any Arcanist Master plays as well into an Interact-heavy pool as Colette. Hell, I'm not sure ANY Master plays as well into an Interact-heavy pool as Colette. If it involves Scheme Markers, she does it, while making the rest of her team even more killy in the bargain. ESPECIALLY in GG17, with things like Dig Their Graves and Mark For Death requiring Interacts before the killing starts, she's clutch in a lot of situations.

If you think she needs to Prompt a single model three times in order to use her, then you never knew how to use her in the first place.

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15 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

But her job is giving Minions and Showgirls the ability to Interact as a (0). And spreading her AP around to other models with bonus movement on top. And being nearly impossible to kill short of "ignores triggers".

I'm not sure any Arcanist Master plays as well into an Interact-heavy pool as Colette. Hell, I'm not sure ANY Master plays as well into an Interact-heavy pool as Colette. If it involves Scheme Markers, she does it, while making the rest of her team even more killy in the bargain. ESPECIALLY in GG17, with things like Dig Their Graves and Mark For Death requiring Interacts before the killing starts, she's clutch in a lot of situations.

If you think she needs to Prompt a single model three times in order to use her, then you never knew how to use her in the first place.

If you want to find a better master for getting schemes done on a budget and in a hurry, you have to go out of faction and look at someone like Lucas McCabe with Luna and 4x Guild Hounds. Even then, he's still not doing what Colette does, and it starts with those 6 models. Colette can work with any minion to get mileage.

If you're trying to do something similar through Ramos, you're counting on AP attrition through summoning. He has to be doing stuff and summoning stuff, and you must have the cards in hand and scrap on table, and the first turn that the spiders are on the table they're not able to do those critical interacts. Sandeep runs into the same kind of problem, only he's not doing it through attrition, but rather wonky interplay between models (copying abilities, triggering effects, etc.) that is reliant on hand, triggers, and proximity.

Colette gives her minions and showgirls the ability to interact as a (0) (optional, so they can interact more than once per turn) with nothing more complicated than proximity. That is, she's on the table, and they're within her aura. No card reliance, no Master AP reliance, and literally the only thing your opponent can do is stop interacts altogether, control models out of her aura, or kill her or all of the minions and showgirls on the table that could get within that aura.
Where Master AP comes into play is if you decide you want to turn some of those (0) interacts into a (1) action of choice for models near markers at the expense of 2 AP from your master. Whether or not you want to is up to you.

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Got bodied today against ressurectionist crew with following strategy:
Nicodem and 3 belles, Nicodem gives them fast, then belles starting to lure one of my models through the table. Then killing them with multiple punds and other models. They also get +flip to Ca. from Nicodem. My models also get bonus Wk from Madam Sybelle upgrade (iirc)
What can you suggest against this? I almost never win a duel against lure cuz of 7 Ca. and can't reach his crew fast enough to do something. He annigilated Colette with this strategy very early and I was really helpless.

I tend to lose against ressurectionists a lot in general, if not from tricks like this, then from summons and tons of activations. 
So what can you reccomend against ressets? Maybe some specific lists for Colette or tech models. Thanks a lot in advance.

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The best thing you can do vs Nicodem is figure out which model he wants to lure and activate it in between lures so that you A) invalidate the lure or B ) move out of LOS from the belles. Another good way to deal with Belles is to use your own lures from Performers to pull models back towards you, or use Raptors to get in their face and block LoS

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Raptors are ht one though, arent they?  Wont block los.

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Ack they are. Sorry. regardless a belle with a raptor in its face has more things to worry about. and also they don't get pounce if a raptor is in the way of getting within range. 

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11 hours ago, Beholder said:

Got bodied today against ressurectionist crew with following strategy:
Nicodem and 3 belles, Nicodem gives them fast, then belles starting to lure one of my models through the table. Then killing them with multiple punds and other models. They also get +flip to Ca. from Nicodem. My models also get bonus Wk from Madam Sybelle upgrade (iirc)
What can you suggest against this? I almost never win a duel against lure cuz of 7 Ca. and can't reach his crew fast enough to do something. He annigilated Colette with this strategy very early and I was really helpless.

I tend to lose against ressurectionists a lot in general, if not from tricks like this, then from summons and tons of activations. 
So what can you reccomend against ressets? Maybe some specific lists for Colette or tech models. Thanks a lot in advance.

Firstly - Focus on your VPs. 

I'm not even going to attempt to create an anti resser list, because you are better off building your list to play the game, not to counter your opponent. 

But the way you play your list can help. So to counter mass Lures what you want to do in the early turns is try not to activate your powerful models too early. If the belles lure an unactivated beater towards them, then they are just saving you AP. Secondly, Colette is actually a very good master to deal with this because she can give models AP outside of their activation.  And if you think they are going to die, she can also give that model reactivate (from her prompt action on a trigger), although it will have to sacrifice at the end of turn. She also has Df triggers to escape should she become lured in. 

And fianlly - focus on scoring your VPs. If your master is killed in turn 1, but it took his entire crew to do so, then don't worry about it, you've just lost 12 ap, BUT they spent more than that to kill them (a masters turn, + 3 belels at 15ss + otehr modesl), so you are on the up overall.  

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If enemy lures is only thing that prevent you from scoring VP - try to place your crew in order which force opponent to target close range of models. Ideally - henchman with Warding Runes.

Sue with anti-caster aura, Captain and Vasques with 50mm markers also can help.

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I disagree that youd be on top if they spent their whole crew killing your master on top. It is not as simple as having lost a bunch of ap. You probably lost a bunch of utility and synergy as well. Also the enemy can mostly not score turn one anyway so a master kill would be very, very good in turn one.

Oh and a little note: Colettes trigger might not help her get away after getting lured due to lack of markers nearby.

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Me too, cmon, tell me how can you go out LoS of 3 miniatures with range 18', and 3 Aps...

There is no soft or hard cover against that, if the Roten see 0.1' of you she can lure with Ca7 with :+fate thx to Nico.

The best options IMO about that is Warding Runes (but you only can have 2 models) or try to hit them first with Alpha strikes.

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This may largely be a play style thing, but I never build a crew that relies on my master being alive for it to win. I would (and often do) happily trade my master for the opponent not moving up their forces for a turn. I know you don't score turn 1, but if you don't leave your deployment zone turn 1, then  you often struggle to score turn 2. And on a lot of the stratergies, once you're behind, its hard to get back. (Granted this probably is less use in Headhunter or collect the bounty, but works really well in things like Squatters rights, interference and stake a claim)

And if I was expecting them to go for Colette, then think its not too hard to get a minion within 8 for death defying, or a dove within 1 for now you see me. Sure, they can kill the dove first. And they can probably lure colette back in if she does escape, but it is yet more AP they are spending. 

I may be wrong but most of the time I expect the mass belle lure to take several activation to kill a significant model. I expect to have activation's to be able to put these counters in place if I think they are worth while. 

 

The above approach may well result in you losing your whole crew, but I find a surprisingly good way to win the game is lose all your models in the opponents deployment zone, because then your opponent often hasn't left it to score themselves. 

But this is what works for me. And it is a potental approach that should largely work after you've already selected your crew, so it can be used regardless of what you put down when you realise what your opponent has planned. 

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3 hours ago, Fictor said:

Me too, cmon, tell me how can you go out LoS of 3 miniatures with range 18', and 3 Aps...

You're right it's not simple. Bit if you force your opponent's Belles move twice before they'll see nice target (without warding runes) via wind walls/pyre markers and blocking terrain - your goal is achieved. Just because you spend less resources for hide than belles for lure.

P.S. And, of course, if you absolutely sure opponent will bring NicoBelles - hire Raspy crew! =) More Pillars and Storm Teleport work fine.

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4 hours ago, Fictor said:

Me too, cmon, tell me how can you go out LoS of 3 miniatures with range 18', and 3 Aps...

There is no soft or hard cover against that, if the Roten see 0.1' of you she can lure with Ca7 with :+fate thx to Nico.

The best options IMO about that is Warding Runes (but you only can have 2 models) or try to hit them first with Alpha strikes.

Have a ht 2 wall the length of the table, and Place yourself on the other side?

Go inside a building?  

Yes this is being silly, and I would doubt that there is a place 6" from the belle that would be impossible for a 3 Ap to reach you, but even if the belle needs to move once before it can lure, you have removed her from the belle pack, and probably saved yourself several pounces. Also possible you have forced her to leave the Nico aura. 

 

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Carlos and Kudra can both put down Blocking terrain, and Carlos is good in a lot of crews to begin with.  They should be making it hard for the opponent to get their LoS angles.

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2 hours ago, retnab said:

Carlos and Kudra can both put down Blocking terrain, and Carlos is good in a lot of crews to begin with.  They should be making it hard for the opponent to get their LoS angles.

I think about 99.9% of the time you try to use Carlos' single Pyre marker to block LoS to a Belle the end result will be that you get lured through Hazardous terrain for your trouble. :P

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7 hours ago, Trixter said:

You're right it's not simple. Bit if you force your opponent's Belles move twice before they'll see nice target (without warding runes) via wind walls/pyre markers and blocking terrain - your goal is achieved. Just because you spend less resources for hide than belles for lure.

P.S. And, of course, if you absolutely sure opponent will bring NicoBelles - hire Raspy crew! =) More Pillars and Storm Teleport work fine.

I usually drop Mei Feng in. Vent Steam a couple of times to cover the crew in general and have someone like Kang with Warding Runes so that he's basically immune to the Lure. Added bonus is that almost nothing in Nico-Ressers wants to go near Kang-supported crews.

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