A new gremlin comes into the family

[Uruk]

Hiya people

Well I was asking help for which faction to (re)start with...when I've heard and followed a pig squeal that led me in the bayou.

Which master I should pick up as first? I know that this question could sound stupid, but there's a master better than the others for a noob?

Many thanks

[Dogmantra]

Som'er and Ophelia both have crew boxes that give you some really key models that fit well in any gremlin crew - Som'er gets you Lenny who is an amazing support piece and Ophelia gets you some powerful more elite models. The masters are fairly straightforward too, but that's not to say they don't have interesting tricks.

Som'er is also a good starting point imo because he's so versatile. He can run gremlin-heavy crews, he can competently run pig crews, he can kill stuff on his own or he can be a strong support piece. From there you can see which playstyles you enjoy most. If you're doing killing, look into Ophelia, Mah and Wong. If you like control, Brewmaster. Piggies is Ulix and support/control is Zoraida.

For a non crew box purchase, slop haulers all the way. They put out so much healing and aren't too bad at offense either.

[Uruk]

Honestly I have a weakness for Ophelia but if you suggest Som'er...tonight I'm playing against Tara starter box, I could try him and see how he goes against her.

Thanks mate!

[MR TORGUE]

I reckon Ophelia; if you have a direct liking for her you may end up resenting the fact you didn't make the purchase and bought another master instead. 

She's really fun to use and Rami can one-shot models dead on turn one. Anyways I digress; go with your gut feeling and you can't go wrong! 

[Adran]

The only master I wouldn't recomend you to start with is Zoriada, and that is because none of her box models are naturally Gremlin, meaning that if you go onto playing the rest of the faction its not the best start. Its a decent box in its own right, so its not a bad choice. 

Otherwise pick which ever one you like the look of, they are all reasonable starting points. You'll probably want to pick up a second master shortly to improve your options (and manage to play at the 50 ss size). 

[MR TORGUE]

For a non crew box purchase, slop haulers all the way. They put out so much healing and aren't too bad at offense either.

Remember i was playing against gremlins with Tara once and a slop hauler threw the def de-buff on my void wretches dropping their def from 8 down to 4. Needless to say they were blown to pieces shortly thereafter. ahhh memories.

Your definitely right though; slop haulers are the s**t.

[Uruk]

The only master I wouldn't recomend you to start with is Zoriada, and that is because none of her box models are naturally Gremlin, meaning that if you go onto playing the rest of the faction its not the best start. Its a decent box in its own right, so its not a bad choice. 

Otherwise pick which ever one you like the look of, they are all reasonable starting points. You'll probably want to pick up a second master shortly to improve your options (and manage to play at the 50 ss size). 

Well mama Z is on my list, but I'd like to run her once I'll have more games under the belt (and run a list of Swampfiends)
 

I reckon Ophelia; if you have a direct liking for her you may end up resenting the fact you didn't make the purchase and bought another master instead. 

She's really fun to use and Rami can one-shot models dead on turn one. Anyways I digress; go with your gut feeling and you can't go wrong! 

Thansk man, I think I'll test both Som'er and Ophelia

[Omenbringer]

Som'er is also a good starting point imo because he's so versatile. He can run gremlin-heavy crews, he can competently run pig crews, he can kill stuff on his own or he can be a strong support piece. From there you can see which playstyles you enjoy most.

I would agree that Som'er is a supremely versatile Master, arguably one of the most versatile in the game, though his learning curve can be fairly high due to all the choices and often self destruction for benefit play style. Not trying to scare anyone off, more trying to encourage working thru the options systematically. If you do decide on Som'er (the best choice, though I might be more than a bit biased) I would recommend the following additional purchases to the crew box;

(1) Bayou Gremlin box (8 Bayou Gremlin's is the sweet spot and you only get 4 with the crew box)

(1) Piglet box (Lenny and Som'er can both summon them and they provide some additional benefit for the crew), if you are going full summon engine then you might want to look at 2 of these

(1) Slop Hauler box (arguably an auto include for the entirety of the gremlin faction)

(1) Hog Whisperer box (enhances piglets)

These will allow you to run most of the standard Som'er tactics. After these my recommendation would be;

The Pigapult (great fun though benefits from a solid foundation with the Summon Factory)

Ophelia crew box (for a more elite Som'er build plus Ophelia likes Bayou Gremlins too)

Bert Jebsen and Gracie (they really should be sold together)

Merris LaCroix

Sammy Lacroix

The big benefit to Som'er first is the solid backbone he provides for the faction to build around. Hopefully that helps in the decision a bit.

 

 

[Dogmantra]

Honestly I rarely find myself taking more than two or three bayou gremlins in my Som'er crews (except in Reconnoiter), but I generally don't play him as a summoner.

[Doctor Borris]

I wouldn't recommend summoning as your first plan for Somner since at 3 SS, it takes a lot of AP to get worth out of half health gremlins.

Remember Somner can easily summon pigs from melee. He also has a 4 min damage gun with free cheating with his pal Lenny.

Slop Haulers are amazing, get them.

Buy Ophelia OR Gracie + Burt. Either combo gives Somner some serious muscle in different ways. They cost enough you'll usually end up using one pair or the Kin. Lenny amps up either group into murder machines. 

Get Merris. I have trouble scheme running with just Bayous, and Merris is one of the cheapest and best scheme runners you could ask for.

I personally love Old Cranky but a good arguement can be made for the Skeeters. Def7 and move 10, plus the ability to do all kinds of trickery means they are one of the best chaff models in the game. Snipers love mosquitos in the face turn 1!

 

[Omenbringer]

I wouldn't recommend summoning as your first plan for Somner since at 3 SS, it takes a lot of AP to get worth out of half health gremlins.

Disagree with this quite a bit.

Half health summoned Bayou Gremlins have an awful lot of worth. If nothing else they contribute another activation for the crew toward out activation. Summoning them doesn't lose the AP it simply transfers it to the summoned model, if healed prior to their activation, the summoned Bayou Gremlin is potentially an AP gain of 1 on that turn, 2 if you use Reckless. If not healed then they make excellent targets for Som'er and Lenny's Piglet summoning antics, netting a SS of value in the trade, a full health piglet, and if done near Som'er can also net 2 control cards for the crews use.

Though he can definitely function well in other builds (such as the solo mode Dogmantra and others seem to prefer), his summoning is one of the most efficient set ups in the game and once really mastered contributes greatly to his potency as a Master. Probably the biggest complaint with it is that it can be a bit boring to run.

[Uruk]

Som'er is also a good starting point imo because he's so versatile. He can run gremlin-heavy crews, he can competently run pig crews, he can kill stuff on his own or he can be a strong support piece. From there you can see which playstyles you enjoy most.

I would agree that Som'er is a supremely versatile Master, arguably one of the most versatile in the game, though his learning curve can be fairly high due to all the choices and often self destruction for benefit play style. Not trying to scare anyone off, more trying to encourage working thru the options systematically. If you do decide on Som'er (the best choice, though I might be more than a bit biased) I would recommend the following additional purchases to the crew box;

(1) Bayou Gremlin box (8 Bayou Gremlin's is the sweet spot and you only get 4 with the crew box)

(1) Piglet box (Lenny and Som'er can both summon them and they provide some additional benefit for the crew), if you are going full summon engine then you might want to look at 2 of these

(1) Slop Hauler box (arguably an auto include for the entirety of the gremlin faction)

(1) Hog Whisperer box (enhances piglets)

These will allow you to run most of the standard Som'er tactics. After these my recommendation would be;

The Pigapult (great fun though benefits from a solid foundation with the Summon Factory)

Ophelia crew box (for a more elite Som'er build plus Ophelia likes Bayou Gremlins too)

Bert Jebsen and Gracie (they really should be sold together)

Merris LaCroix

Sammy Lacroix

The big benefit to Som'er first is the solid backbone he provides for the faction to build around. Hopefully that helps in the decision a bit.

 

 

Thanks for the advice man, a bit expensive atm indeed but seems really funny to run

[Omenbringer]

No problem, Som'er can be fairly expensive, especially if looking to run all his tactics. Gremlin's do offer some less expensive options though, Ophelia is probably the best one if looking for one purchase.

[Uruk]

No problem, Som'er can be fairly expensive, especially if looking to run all his tactics. Gremlin's do offer some less expensive options though, Ophelia is probably the best one if looking for one purchase.

How could I reach 50ss with Ophelia's starter? Sammy+Slop Hauler?

[Doctor Borris]

Ophelia needs Lenny. Holy smokes. Auto rams, dumb luck protection, general armor, francois blowing up targets, Remi sniping something for 8 first action of the game. Lenny does all that for Ophelia and more. 

We gave a ton of Somner ideas but don't let it overwhelm you, let's scale back a second. You need:

A set of Slop Haulers.

If you're on a budget these guys are perfect with Bayou Gremlins. A bayou has a max damage 6 shot and Slop Haulers not only heal, they also tank defense low enough the bayous 4 shoot can actually HIT the target. Lenny gives auto rams for auto Luck triggers. Soon the Bayous are no scope headshots all day. What is crazy is Haulers are actually good enough models to do fighting on their own if it comes to it.

A set of piglets and maybe a set of Bayous. 

Starting out, piglets are just fantastic models. Great defenses and good speed. Somner and Lenny can summon more easily. The extra bayous are good buuuuuut you might not always be summoning more.

At this point you have a wonderful master and a good crew for 30ish point games. Now you can get Ophelia Box which unlocks a ton of specialists and another master play style. If you are new to Malifaux Ophelias box is probably more flexible then Burt and Gracie.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Doctor Borris

[Uruk]

Didn't know that Lenny was so good with Ophelia

[Dogmantra]

Lenny is so good with anyone.

He has some huge downsides (1 Wp!!!!) but he does so much without even spending AP. And Ophelia is the only Ht1 gremlin master, so he has the added bonus of being able to toss her.

[Uruk]

Lol ok...one question: how the Gremlins do in tournaments?

[Doctor Borris]

Didn't know that Lenny was so good with Ophelia

it's not immediately apparent but look at the kin ram triggers.  What Lenny let's you do is cheat in high cards or double focus and still get your rams.  Francois can soulstone in a ram but his max damage spread is 10 I believe? Rami can't soulstone a ram, so Lenny let's him double focus (to get around cover or hard to wound) and shoot 36 inches with 8 max damage. Even Ophelia doesn't mind easy thinkin luck triggers for every shot. Even Raphael and Exploding Pig Guy have crazy ram triggers.

On top of all that Lenny is tough and can smash things with his tree pretty good.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Doctor Borris

[Uruk]

Tested Ophelia vs Tara 35ss, both with respective boxes, Reconnoiter.

Honesty I'm a bit disappointed; Lacroix are a real killing machine but the impression is that they are like a short rag, with poor tactical options :/ I'll test Som'er soon and see how it goes

[Ludvig]

Tested Ophelia vs Tara 35ss, both with respective boxes, Reconnoiter.

Honesty I'm a bit disappointed; Lacroix are a real killing machine but the impression is that they are like a short rag, with poor tactical options :/ I'll test Som'er soon and see how it goes

Define poor tactical options?

Straight out of the box they might not be able to do everything but you can't say anything if you haven't built 50ss lists. Consider Bayou Gremlins with any gremlin list. Take 3-4 of those and you will out-activate most enemies and get a lot of interacty schemes done. Ophelia can bounce around like mad att make the enemy scared and/or dead. Francois can more or less go alone on a flank, kill the enemy schemers and then get a marker scheme done by himself since he can get so much AP.

[Uruk]

Exception made for offensive solutions I have not found many movement tricks, debuff and conditions on the enemy

[Dogmantra]

Gremlins as a whole tend to be more about buffing their friends than debuffing their enemies (Brewmaster and Zoraida are who you want to look at more if you love your debuffs), but Ophelia's box in general have some great control - Francois has a 2"  range with a fantastic Ml stat, ridiculous damage and a high threat range due to reckless, so he puts out a bubble of "I do not want to be here". Pere Ravage is similar, but replace the big melee range with blowing up on death, making it a bad idea to try to kill him when he's in melee range. Rami and Ophelia basically force your opponent to spend as much time in cover as possible, and while Raphael doesn't put out much control himself, he can take so many hits and works as a nice tanky objective runner, because there's not much that your opponent can do to kill him.

For movement tricks, Reckless tends to be its own movement trick, and iirc, all of Ophelia's box has it except her (but she's a master). Ophelia herself also has "Ooh a Girl!" and My Threatenin Gun, Jug Rocket and Team Work all have tactical actions that can reposition your friendlies.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Dogmantra

[Uruk]

Well I'll give her another try...

[Omenbringer]

Tested Ophelia vs Tara 35ss, both with respective boxes, Reconnoiter.

Honesty I'm a bit disappointed; Lacroix are a real killing machine but the impression is that they are like a short rag, with poor tactical options :/ I'll test Som'er soon and see how it goes

Perhaps your next quote is the reason you think this.

...I have not found many movement tricks...

Probably one of the best movement tricks for most of the faction (read as any Gremlin model) is the simple piglet. Truffles allows the piglet to aid their assigned Gremlin's movement quite a bit and introduce some really neat tactical options.

For debuffing I think you will find Som'er more to your liking, for conditions you should take a look at the Brew Master.