Who is ready to drink some Gator-ade!?

[Flat Tooth]

I thought a long time about that post title. Probably needs more work.

 

I haven't seen a lot of talk about the Bayou Gators. Anyone proxy them yet? I'm going to try and grab a box in the sale but they do seem somewhat one-dimensional (thought they seem very, very good at that dimension).

 

Anyone have ideas?

Let's get some discussion going!

[Dogmantra]

I've played them on Vassal a little.

Not suuuper impressed with them, they're a little slow unless you have the cards to spare (although their push is very nice). Unfortunately I've had a hard time keeping them alive - they're not gremlins or pigs so you can't heal them with slop haulers. Also insignificant minions means they make good fodder for your opponent to distract/cursed object.

On the plus side, they can do some pretty nice melee stuff and have some fearsome triggers (although because they're not pigs or gremlins, no som'er/lenny shenanigans). I'm not convinced with their 3AP attack without a lot of setup and tend to prefer either 3 attacks or one focused and one unfocused attack. They're alright for a 5 stone minion, just super overshadowed by lightning bugs and slop haulers

[Flat Tooth]

Oh man, I never think about how awful being insignificant in distract and cursed object is! Gona really get me one of these days.

I definitely get the worry about their 3ap attack. All of the ideas I can think of are pretty specific. Maybe if you're playing Make Them Suffer and they move their minion/peon to hide in a corner you could send a gator after them. With the push I think they can get 13 inches and still attack once?

[Dogmantra]

If it's for Make them Suffer then a gator can't score for that either, but for Reckoning I think a Lightning Bug is probably a better shot (unless you really need the high damage), since they can reckless for 10" move + an 8" shot.

[Flat Tooth]

Oh, no I meant because apparently some people will take only a single minion/peon in Make Them Suffer and then hide it in a corner so that you can't really score off of it but if you CAN kill it then you start getting points every turn for them not having any. It's super super super situational but even in that situation a Lightning Bug is still probably better haha.

[MONSTERNOGGIN]

McTavish likes them for helping his Sh attack. From the shadows means they can be engaged early on to slow down your opponents big beaters as well as tie-ing up snipers early game.

[Dogmantra]

Gators don't have from the shadows - you're thinking of Wild Boars. Although McTavish can take the upgrade that lets swampfiend minions do the same thing, and tbqh I'd probably consider it necessary just because they can be a pain to get into position.

 

 

Also if you do that, taking 3 gators, 3 boars and mctavish, you can have your entire crew except master and mctavish deploy anywhere and it is hilarious if not particularly powerful.

[MONSTERNOGGIN]

Yup. I left out the upgrade part, it's usually a auto-take if I'm including gators.

You also have the beginnings of a fun NB Zoraida crew there.

[MONSTERNOGGIN]

Oh man, I never think about how awful being insignificant in distract and cursed object is! Gona really get me one of these days.

I definitely get the worry about their 3ap attack. All of the ideas I can think of are pretty specific. Maybe if you're playing Make Them Suffer and they move their minion/peon to hide in a corner you could send a gator after them. With the push I think they can get 13 inches and still attack once?

At that point you'd be looking at rooster riders for chasing down runners. Different topic, I know, just pointing it out though.

[Flat Tooth]

Yeah definitely! I went ahead and decided to wait on them (so inevitably someone will come out with a bonkers good idea for them now haha) in favor of more limited edition things and what not. I like the idea of them. I think they're basically the only ruthless model we've got in faction, right?

[Vidd]

Being Insignificant locks them out of several schemes and strategies and actually makes them detrimental when Distract and Cursed Object are on the table.
However, getting built-in Melee Expert, a useful (0) and being Ruthless means they must have a place beyond McTavish's Loyal Scouts trigger, surely.

It's probably best not to look at them in a vacuum like this and imagine them in a crew with McTavish who can drop a Hunting Screen and provide Swamp Is Our Home to bump their survivability. They're actually sort of speedy when you consider they can move up to 13", unimpeded and still take a bite out of something.

That said, with Insignificant the only thing they can do is bite things and I really wonder when their (3) action will ever be a valuable option as opposed to three separate (1) attacks, especially when it requires a suit to be useful. Note that McTavish can Wrangle the Bayou Gator to Walk and they have the 3" push. Perhaps if you have a 13 in your hand, it might be worthwhile considering it's both damage and Paralyzed?

[Omenbringer]

Bayou Gators have an awful lot of competition in most Gremlin Crews even without the negatives they carry that have already been mentioned.

[MONSTERNOGGIN]

^^^this.

At the end of the day, they're not awful. However, there are more efficient options available.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Yup. I left out the upgrade part, it's usually a auto-take if I'm including gators.

You also have the beginnings of a fun NB Zoraida crew there.

This is where I'm going. MamaZ list initial play once stuff arrives will include some gators and McT.....and playing her in NB means Doppleganger for 1st activation shenanigans!

[rgarbonzo]

Gators are extremely useful for killing strategies.  When coupled with Somer they can be devestating. It takes some setup but you can have gators eat any target. I have had one eat Pandora. Gators present a problem for your opponent because if they discard too many cards it leaves them susceptible to being a gator snack. Again, they work really well with Somer since he can get cards from summoning, thus negating their discard to push action. They also arent as slow as some because of unimpeded.  If you couple them with McTavish then they can benefit from his Ability to give out cover to all non claw attacks. Again, with Somer this can be deadly since Somer can cover the back line and generate more Bayou Gremlins and McTavish and Gators can act as a screening force, or if you have the cards, you can use the old Soviet ha,mer and anvil atrategy against your opponent.  All in al they have a place in any reckoning strat becauses they are purpose built to kill, more so than any other model in the faction. 

[Ludvig]

Gators are extremely useful for killing strategies.  When coupled with Somer they can be devestating. It takes some setup but you can have gators eat any target. I have had one eat Pandora. Gators present a problem for your opponent because if they discard too many cards it leaves them susceptible to being a gator snack. Again, they work really well with Somer since he can get cards from summoning, thus negating their discard to push action. They also arent as slow as some because of unimpeded.  If you couple them with McTavish then they can benefit from his Ability to give out cover to all non claw attacks. Again, with Somer this can be deadly since Somer can cover the back line and generate more Bayou Gremlins and McTavish and Gators can act as a screening force, or if you have the cards, you can use the old Soviet ha,mer and anvil atrategy against your opponent.  All in al they have a place in any reckoning strat becauses they are purpose built to kill, more so than any other model in the faction. 

Hitting and getting to cheatable damage against Pandora sounds like something that only comes up once in a blue moon. You need the high crows and your pandora opponent needs to let you hit against wp 7. Even if you focused once they can drop an 11 against your 13 crow and you are at a negative for damage. Against stuff with df 4 I could see eating stuff as viable but hardly against Pandora unless she black jokers her flip.

Playing some Zoraida on the neverborn side I have a very hard time justifying the gator over a waldgeist. It has a similar damage track but dies super easily and is insignificant. I guess other gremlin masters can't use the waldgeists and so could have some use for them in tandem with McT but Zoraida should probably just bring the Waldgeists. I would love to be proven wrong on this because I'm going to need to buy these guys  

They also seem really easy to kill. A freikorp trapper focusing and hitting crit strike can get them with a single shot t1 and several other models should have an easy time with putting a couple of min damage 3 hits on them which makes them about as resilient as a bayou gremlin against a lot of models.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Ludvig

[PanzerHarris]

Gotta love the croc bomb. 

Take a buried Bad Juju (if you can) and Killjoy. Throw a couple of From the Shadows Bayou Gators up in your opponent's face. Take a picture of that face when he realises that once he kills one of those crocs, which he will have to do because they're nasty given half a chance, out come Juju and Killjoy. 

Have done that many times, or a variant thereof. Works even if Juju doesn't start buried. Oh well, just Killjoy to the face then. If Juju does get killed then that second Gator is suddenly hurling himself at stuff... 

No, it isn't optimal. But usually, the fun stuff isn't. :)

[Math Mathonwy]

Gators are extremely useful for killing strategies.  When coupled with Somer they can be devestating. It takes some setup but you can have gators eat any target. I have had one eat Pandora.

I had Chihuahua kill Bishop - doesn't mean that it's a good tactic

All in al they have a place in any reckoning strat becauses they are purpose built to kill, more so than any other model in the faction. 

They are also built to be killed. I would never take them in Reckoning.

[rgarbonzo]

YMMV, I love them and Bugs since I rarely run Haulers.  Its all about playstyle as well as the opposing faction.

[Brewmaster]

Where there's a McTavish, there's a me thinking super hard about Croc-a-gators. And that whole "cheating cards" discussion is handled by S'omers "Bigger Hat Than You" and pure out activation. The Gators just benefit from the scraps. 

[AverageGatsby]

Unfortunately, I think gators suffer from the problem in that they "appear" scary, both physically and rules wise, but don't live up to the expectations and end up being fire magnets and dying early. 

[Dumb Luck]

I like them to chip away against stuff that is more expensive than them, but with a lower Df. Things like Fransisco they'll make a mess of.

[rgarbonzo]

Low df high cost models are fun to eat. If you can get close enough, discard for thepush, then double focus and bite down hard on that model.  Laugh hysterically,  profit.

[Omenbringer]

Rgarbanzo not that I dont agree that it is a great experience when you can pull all that off with them (should probably add that your opponent would also have to be empty on the control hand to insure that the model would be killed), but the target you present is one where most of the Gators hiring competition would shine as well.

Again this is where I think the fatal flaw of the Bayou Gators in most situations and crew builds lies; they just dont do enough that other gremlin/pig models cant do more consistently and/or at a cost savings.

[Clockwork_Fish]

I think the best use for them is with Neverborn Zoraida using the Tarot Reading upgrade to hire Swamp Fiends out of faction.   Combining Gators with Bad Juju using Eternal Fiend will help keep them alive, or at least dissuade your opponent from attacking them.  Teaming up with a Spawn Mother will overcome their low charge range, and the Gupp's Juvenile Wail ability raises their damage output to frankly absurd levels.  Also, using Death Roll on Voodoo Doll is a good way to hand out paralyze to a hemmed opponent, not to mention a heap of damage.  Mama Z can obey them into position, and feed them the cards they are so hungry for.

In faction they aren't quite as useful.  I can see using them with Ma Tucket and boosting their melee to 6 with chores, then using Horrible Hollerin' and Trixie's Gremlin Lure to move them into position.  If they were only Height 1 (and logically, you'd think they were low enough to the ground to count), they would be more useful.  Then you could back them up from range with Aim High.