Turf War

[scottb]

Just played my first game where Turf War was the strategy. Up against Marcus. It was tough going and lost in the end. What would you all consider taking as Master/Crew in that scenario? Schemes were assassinate, kill protege, protect territory, take prisoner. I'm really struggling with crews that are combat orientated.

[Dogmantra]

Slop Haulers are your friend always, and especially in Turf War.

I find Turf War tends to end up very melee heavy (at least for me because I make it melee heavy) so good melee models are a must. That means Francois is very highly recommended, and Mancha Roja is amazing not only because he's a terrifying melee presence and has a 12" charge range if you position him well, but also his Challenge can make your models much more resilient. Lenny is nice as usual for the damage reduction. Burt Jebsen can be a great choice not only because he's another scary melee presence, but because if your opponent isn't being co operative and clumping up like they're supposed to in turf war, he can fix that with his Crackerjack Timing.

Vs Arcanists, I expect armour and so Lightning Bugs are a good choice here, since they ignore armour in addition to having a nice 2" attack that can also be used at a range. Old Cranky is FANTASTIC here because most of your models will be near the centre, and can benefit from his powerful auras. Just don't also take Moon Shinobis with him. Sammy LaCroix is nice too, for non- ranged damage as well as her horror duels and no walk/charge conditions.

Again, vs Arcanists I'd probably expect blasts too so Merris is never a bad idea (and in different scheme pools should be an autopick - deliver a message, I'm looking at you). Against Marcus she would end up switching roles from blast-protector to scheme runner extraordinaire and get you those sweet protect territory points.

For masters, blasts are good against clumped enemies, so Wong and Som'er can be a good choice (I'd lean towards Som'er out of comfort more than anything, although he can also do ok in melee), but if you're taking an elite melee beaty crew obviously randomising attacks can be a concern, so Zoraida makes a great pick too, for Obey to get extra attacks out of Mancha Roja/Lenny/Francois, but also because you can hire a Nurse, which makes your crew so much more survivable* and lets you put out way more control.

*Full heal + paralyse is so abusable. Lenny is immune to conditions so it's simply a full heal on him. Mancha Roja can become immune to slow + paralyse with his A Thousand Masks and turn it into just a heal. Use it on the voodoo doll and the healing isn't shared but the paralyse is. If Zoraida needs healing, have her obey a nurse to do it on her on her final AP - she gains paralyse during her activation so it ends but she's out of AP anyway, so it is functionally a full heal without paralyse.

I don't really play Brewie, but again he could be a very solid pick - him plus Wesley plus Mancha Roja plus Sammy with a drinking contest and a challenge and twisted mind means three Wp duels at -4 Wp before enemies can even do anything, and you still get the Obey benefits (albeit without the inbuilt mask)

The other obvious master that comes to mind for me for Turf War is everyone's favourite spoon-wielder, Mah Tucket. She is impossible to pin down and every turn she bounces around, best case scenario getting to charge twice with a 3" engagement range and Ml8.

No interest in Ophelia at all from me, so I can't say if she's good or bad. Not enough experience with Ulix but I imagine pigs with their strong melee would be a different version of the elite melee crew described above.

 

Looking at this scheme pool specifically, it ain't one I'm too comfortable with. Protect Territory is almost certainly the best pick here, and I'd bring a bayou gremlin or two just as back up to drop the markers in case I needed Merris to protect from blasts. The other schemes are more difficult and rely more on what your opponent brings. Take Prisoner is always very risky and you probably should only use it as a backup, not build a crew around it. Luckily the elite melee crew composition is nice and killy when it needs to be, so it's essentially a tossup between assassinate and murder protege. If you're lucky enough to be against a Marcus crew and Myranda is his most expensive model, Murder Protege is great. She can't use her shapechange ability because murder protege doesn't care who kills/sacrifices the model. In general against Marcus it's probably better than Assassinate too, just because of his annoying trigger that lets him hand off the damage to a nearby beast. Although if you took Som'er/Skeeters, drop one next to him and use Quit Screwin Round! and then feel free to assassinate away against his quite poor Df5/Wd12.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Dogmantra

[MONSTERNOGGIN]

In general, gremlins by nature aren't very tanky and can eat up a lot of resources trying to make them so.

To provide a counterpoint to dog's tanky bubble, here's another perspective.

To score turf war, you just need 2 non-peon models within 6" of the center. That's a huuuge bubble and nothing says you have to stand on the center marker. With that said, 2 bayou gremlins/piglets hiding behind terrain with a skosh of their base over the line score the sames points as 4 henchmen/enforcers clustered in the center.

I'll chime in on Ophelia as she's my master of choice. With her aim high ability, she can and models like Remi can lay down cover fire without having to randomize for your ht 1 models. McTavish also doesn't randomize into the scrum. Veey seldom does she dissappoint in turf war for me.

Som'er and Sammy can hang back and pop out two gremlins end of turn to run up for points, as can Ulix with piglets.

Wong can drop the blasts on the turf war bubble with a glowy McTavish picking off the stragglers.

Zoraida and Brewie can obey enemy models out of the circle late turn to deny points along with dog's shenanigans.

PIGAPULT/stuffed piglets. Should be self explanatory.

As far as schemes, protect territory should be pretty straight forward. Murder protege as well for all the blasty/killey fun previously mentioned and the higher costed models will likely be the ones moving into the turf war ring.

Second Merris and Old Cranky for all the reasons.

 

[Flat Tooth]

Yeah Wong hitting a well timed severe damage can really really reallllllllly make turf war go your way. With Turf War I always figure I'm going to lose lots of models because, as Noggin said, gremlins die easy so I agree about throwing bayou gremlins into it because so what if they die!

 

That being said I'm about to start my wobbly walk down the brewmasters road and I can't wait for turf war.

[MONSTERNOGGIN]

Brewie, Rooster riders, and fermented river monks FTW... Just sayin...

[monkeyking68]

Brewie, Rooster riders, and fermented river monks FTW... Just sayin...

*sniff*It's so beautiful.*sniff*

[MONSTERNOGGIN]

Brewie, Rooster riders, and fermented river monks FTW... Just sayin...

*sniff*It's so beautiful.*sniff*

SHOO! Go away troll!

[scottb]

What do you think about taking Bishop as a merc and then Mancha Roja? Bishop can paralyse someone with Haymaker (no triggers required) then Mancha Roja can kill the target with the Finisher trigger on his Grapple. Whilst Mancha can achieve it himself, it would require two different suits.

If you kill a target straight out like this, does it ignore Hard to Kill?

[Dogmantra]

Maybe. It's probably a little more reliable than Mancha Roja doing it by himself. The only trouble there is that you still need a lot of setup and if you're hitting a model that hasn't activated yet,  there's nothing to stop your opponent from just activating the model you just paralysed on their turn to clear it.

It does ignore Hard to Kill though, because it doesn't care about woundsm

[D6Damager]

If you want to scrum in the middle with protect territory I would go with:

Zoraida w/Hexed Among You (to get the trees in place right away) + Crystal Ball (card manipulation combos with Sammy)

Mancha Roja w/Mud Toss (condition removal +beatstick cleanup)

Sammy LaCroix w/Tarot Reading (let's you take the waldgeists and she adds her own condition shenanigans)

Merris LaCroix (scheme running + blast protection)

Nurse (heals + condition shenanigans)

Waldgeist (annoying defense)

Waldgeist (annoying defense)

3 SS Pool

It's a small but tanky/defensive crew that throws conditions around makes it generally annoying for your opponent to dislodge from the center. Alternatively you could take animal shape instead of crystal ball to help prevent assassinate.

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by D6Damager

[Dogmantra]

Why not take Tarot Reading on Zoraida and Animal Shape on Sammy?

[D6Damager]

11 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Why not take Tarot Reading on Zoraida and Animal Shape on Sammy?

Mainly because crystal ball combos really nicely with Sammy's winds of fate ability and she has to be within 6".

But since Assassinate was in the OP's pool it's also worth putting animal shape on Zoraida for her to quickly get away and deny VPs. The extra mobility doesn't really matter for Sammy other than keeping her safe. She wouldn't even be the target if the opponent also took Murder Protege (which was also in the pool) as that would be Mancha who is plenty mobile himself in the right circumstances.

[Dogmantra]

2 hours ago, D6Damager said:

Mainly because crystal ball combos really nicely with Sammy's winds of fate ability and she has to be within 6".

You can take both if they're on different models.

[scottb]

Anyone any recommendations for a Master/Crew when facing Ten Thunders in a Turf War with Protect Territory, Bodyguard, Make them suffer, Plant Evidence?

[scottb]

I just can't see how to ensure I score from Turf War each turn but prevent opponent scoring from Make Them Suffer. To my mind (with limited experience) I need enough models to get points from Turf War (i.e. cheap minions) OR I get tough models and hope to survive long enough (though unlikely) to score with Turf War - one seems more likely to score strategy but give away points, another seems less likely to score strategy but deny points to opponent. I just can decide!

[Four_N_Six]

My go to for Turf War is either Zipp or Brewmaster.  Brewmaster isn't as dangerous as I'd like, but people still think twice about getting anywhere near him.  Fingers can do basically anything with scheme markers, so protect territory is great with him (especially if the opponent is dropping markers, just have Fingers flip them), or Trixiebelle is good for Protect.  I'd probably personally do Brewmaster, take Protect Territory and have Fingers do it, and also make him the Bodyguard target.  He's incredibly hard to take down if you plan it correctly.  You could give Brewmaster Drinking "Problem," and then anytime Fingers heals, it's healing for double.

 

The other option I'd consider is Zipp.  He works opposite of Brewmaster in the case of Turf War.  Brewmaster dares opponents to come into range, and Zipp throws them out of it once they do.  If you have Earl near Zipp so he gets his  built in, then he can effectively get rid of 3 models a turn.  Which means that in order to guarantee scoring Turf War, your opponent has to have at least 5 models within 6" of the center, and that's assuming you don't have anyone else to move enemies around.  Luckily, I'd be running The First Mate in this crew, which means I have more options than just Zipp to get enemies the Hell out of Turf War range.

With a Zipp crew in this game, I'd probably take Bodyguard again, probably on Zipp.  He's very hard to pin down, so he shouldn't be taking much damage.  He's extremely mobile to get away from anything, and you can always have Fingers or a Slop Hauler to heal.  Slop Hauler is probably better in this instance, since you should have enough grouped up to make the heal worth while.

 

In any case, I'd probably run a low amount of minions.  They'll have less targets to kill, but you should also have an easier time keeping them hidden.  You only really need one in order to make sure they don't score, as long as you keep it hidden until at least turn 3 or 4.

[scottb]

Thanks for replying @Four_N_Six

Unfortunately I don't have either of those two masters but have the rest. I will look at few minion options but if you have any ideas for other masters do share.

[Four_N_Six]

Well, you could go the Som'er or Mah Tucket route, and dare enemies to get near turf war or get ripped apart.  Same with Wong.  Only issue with Som'er is that, generally speaking, you play him as a summoner, which leaves you wide open for Make them Suffer.  Wong is one of my favorites, but so is Mah Tucket.

 

Wong is the obvious choice for enemies getting grouped up.  Turf War isn't quite grouped up enough for him, but if you bring Burt Jebsen (good magical target anyways), he can help group up the enemy with his tactical action.  Having a magical model when you need stuff dead is a good option, anyways.  Wong has a little bit of scheme marker manipulation, which could come into play, but mostly he's just dangerous when too many enemies get close.

 

Ignoring my previous post and master suggestions, I'd go for Mah Tucket on this one.  Mostly because I run her crews fairly elite.  Her and a pair of big beaters when I can, and add on Old Cranky.  I generally use Whiskey Golem and one other big guy.  Toss up between the Emissary and Mancha Roja, depending on my mood.  Emissary means I don't have to hire Trixiebelle, which I always appreciate.

So assuming you go with Mah, Whiskey Golem, and the Emissary, you've got three dangerous models that are highly mobile, and Mah can make them more dangerous with Chores.  Emissary has a large threat range naturally, along with its push and the ability to push enemies on a successful melee attack, which means you can get them out of Turf War without killing them if necessary.  Mah also has a push trigger if you can hit it if you want them out of range.  Whiskey Golem's new upgrade makes him much harder to take down, plus he has nimble so he can get to the enemy and still get his attacks in.  Or, if you aren't worried about it getting killed, you can take his old upgrade so he can walk and flurry.

With that set up, you're only 20 stones in with your dangerous models, which gives another 30 for hiring either more killing models, or scheme runners.

[scottb]

Thanks again @Four_N_Six

I am liking the Mah idea and that of pushing enemies out of the middle! I don't have Whiskey Golem but will have a look for others that can do pushes (I can think of Pigs but they are minions). Without WG, do you have other suggestions off the top of your head? Maybe Mancha? Or someone shooty since I'm low on shooting attacks with Mah and Emissary?

47 minutes ago, Four_N_Six said:

Emissary means I don't have to hire Trixiebelle, which I always appreciate.

Why do you say this? I don't follow the logic. What ability/role is the Emissary covering?

 

Based on what you've suggested here's a possible crew, thoughts?

Mah - Lead Lined Apron (2)

Lucky Emissary (10) - Conflux of Bushwhacking (0)

Mancha Roja (10)

Merris (6) - scheme marker

McTavish (10) - range attack plus can limit TT buffs via Focus

Sparks (7) - for nullifying TT pushes/buffs

Slop Hauler (5) - the only minion, too much of a risk?

TOTAL 50SS

 

I am unsure about adding Old Cranky because he is such an easy model to die and give away a VP to Make Them Suffer.

[Four_N_Six]

The Emissary allows me to have the suit of Chores I want without having to cheat initiative.  Sometimes I'll use Trixiebelle anyways, but with the Emissary I'm not losing initiative.  Usually, I'm not going to cheat a high  in to get the right chore for the turn, so when I ditch that card, I'm ensuring that I lose initiative for the round.  Emissary means I can throw a 1  and get my chore, while still potentially winning initiative.

Mancha Roja is the model I alternate with in a Mah crew.  He hits pretty hard with a consistent damage track, and has a trigger on every suit.  It isn't always the best trigger for the situation, but the point is that he has options there.  His charge distance (with proper positioning) means that he can keep up with Mah Tucket on the field while she's charging around.  Also, if you have the cards in hand you don't need for other things (don't count on in very often), you can use is tactical action to give himself +1 Ml.  Which means that you can have both him and Mah Tucket at Ml 8 in the same round for when you really need to lay the hurt.  Typically turn 3 for me.

In this game, it shouldn't be hard to keep Merris protected.  Sparks does a great job, too, so having him against 10T is probably a great idea.  I just got him painted, so I haven't thrown him onto the table yet, but I'm definitely anxious to give it a shot.

Keep in mind that Mah has a few tricks.  She does have the ability to make pushes, but it's not entirely reliable against enemies.  However, being able to charge while engaged and ignore models while doing it means you can make sure she's hitting what you want without getting tied up by a model your opponent just throws at her.  So I'd toss Know the Terrain onto her.  Only 1 stone, so not a huge investment for a great trick.  Make sure you keep that in mind.  Sometimes it's easier to have her go after the weaker and vulnerable targets while your bigger models handle the other threats in your opponent's crew.

If you keep McTavish nearby, he should be able to keep the  Slop Hauler safe.  Leave Slop Hauler near McTavish's cover that he can drop, and then let Sparks and McTavish handle the whole "focus" problem that 10T bring to the table.

I agree about the vulnerability of Cranky, but it's easy enough to hide our Ht 1 models, and in a Mah Tucket crew that I play, the soulstone regeneration is a strong ability.  Especially if you can keep him in an anchored position near the Slop Hauler so the Hauler gets the  on Df duels, making it even harder to bring him down.  You can keep Cranky hidden behind taller models, and the Hauler will get the  on Df duels while they're both in McTavish's cover.  It's not a 100% guarantee they'll survive the game, but if we assume your opponent takes Make Them Suffer, then you just need them to survive until turn 3 or 4 to make sure that they don't get full points from it.

If you take and announce protect territory, Merris can literally do it in one activation.  Drop Marker > Walk > (0) for a second marker > Profit.  She can go Reckless if completely necessary as well.  You can keep McTavish easily alive for Bodyguard as long as you keep him at range.  Keep him close to the Slop Hauler and you can make sure he's healed to get the full 3 VP from it.

 

Obviously it all depends on what your opponent brings to the table and what they're trying to accomplish, but it's usually a safe bet that they'll take Make Them Suffer against a Gremlin crew.  Hell, if they don't have many Henchmen, then you can just try to kill the Henchmen and Master so they can't score Make Them Suffer.  That way you don't have to worry about protecting your minion(s).  The other scheme can be handled by your killers if necessary.  If they're dropping markers for any of the 3 schemes available, McTavish can devour them for a heal (bonus help for Bodyguard).  If they're doing Bodyguard, you have enough big hitters to take them down.  Especially if you try to eliminate them early because of fear of Make Them Suffer.

[scottb]

Thanks for the detail @Four_N_Six

I am at a full 50SS so would need to drop someone to fit in Know the Terrain - is it worth that? Would it be worth dropping the Slop Hauler for a Bayou, then adding in Know the Terrain for Mah and Dirty Cheater for Mancha? That would seem quite a gamble! But then the Slop Hauler isn't likely to be that close to Mah/Mancha who will be in the thick of some action potentially!?! Plus the Slop can't heal McTavish or Emissary and Merris will be away doing her thing. Might be worth dropping?

You've still lost me a bit on the winning/loosing of initiative bit, but I can see that Emissary allows you to get the Chore of choice - and maybe that is what you mean by "winning" initiative?

Also Mah has Horrible Hollerin' which seems a great way to get pushes and as reliable (if not more) as other means.

[Four_N_Six]

With initiative, I just mean that generally if I have the  to get the melee increase on chores, I'd rather get that than win initiative.  So if it's Trixiebelle in my crew to cheat initiative to get my chore, that means if I throw a 1  out for it, I'm probably definitely losing initiative in order to get the chore I want.  If it's the emissary, it's just an extra card for chores, meaning I can use a 1  and still have whatever numerical value I had from my normal initiative flip.

 

I don't know if getting rid of the slop hauler is the best option.  Mainly because if you don't have any minions, you're just handing 3 points to your opponent for nothing.  Replacing it isn't an awful idea, as long as you can keep the new minion going easily enough, otherwise you're in the same situation.  I get a lot of use out of Know the Terrain, but I also don't generally bring her armor, so it's a tradeoff on her survivability a bit, which isn't always the best idea.

[scottb]

Ah, that makes more sense about initiative, though I guess the issue is then about whether having the right chore is the more important factor over winning initiative itself - I guess that will be very situation dependant.

Yeah, I definitely am not saying there should be no minions. Replacing the Slop with a Bayou could be risky, plus the Slop can go Reckless for less damage to itself (can the Slop also heal itself?). But then, the Bayou has a quicker walk and can get away from Ml attacks without having to take damage.

I have insufficient experience to know if Mah should take her Lead Lined Apron over Know the Terrain (as a way to keep the Slop Hauler), but I can certainly see the usefulness of Mah being able to control her engagement rather than stuck in a particular combat. I guess one way of looking at the armour is that it will likely take at least 2 (probably more) hits to kill Mah - so the armour basically takes her up to 14 wounds at least. Thoughts?

[Four_N_Six]

If I have room for the Little Lass, I generally take the apron on her so that it eventually goes to Mah.  That way, I have a little mini beater for a little while with Armor +2 until it dies and it goes to Mah.  Otherwise I typically don't, simply because having the soulstone to prevent can be more flexible than just 2 stones for Armor +2.  Not necessarily saying it's a bad thing to take, though.

In the instance of models that stop you from preventing damage, the armor is better, for example.

[scottb]

I have another Turf War encounter coming up and still struggling with it. I now have Brewmaster but not Zipp yet. Would @Four_N_Six or any others have suggestions different to the above?

The deployment is "close", the schemes are Line in Sand, Assassinate, Bodyguard, Murder Protege, Power Ritual.