Unlocking mei feng

[Skitt_Happens]

I'm also a very new player - Mei Feng is one of the horses in my stable (that hasn't really been given a chance to stretch her legs), and I was playing around with a theoretical idea similar to the discussed above as a summoning engine. What would you think to swapping wandering river style on Yu to Low river style? it therefore becomes: Emberling drops scrap, Toshiro summons Komainu off scrap and "fast"s another minion, Yu heals 2 damage on summoned komainu and removes slow. The big advantage of this is that it can all be done in Mei Feng's vent steam cloud as Yu's healing is ML. Chiaki could do a similar job, cheaper, but not inside a steam cloud and it's much more card reliant. Yu can even top up Emberling in the same action if he goes defensive with his first action, and borrow wings of wind from Mei Feng to keep the whole machine moving and more or less immune to CA or SH actions. Add Sparks into this - possibly giving the new komainu fast and carrying hard worker. Komainu run in and bite anything that gets too close, handing out burning. Mei Feng then goes in with positive flips, ignoring armour and hard to wound with a string of attacks.

Any thoughts?

[RarerMonsters]

Or just hire Komainu?

See, I don't see this strategy as very effective because you're throwing so much effort and resources into creating normal Komainu (Decent, but not extraordinary minions)

Summoning can seem amazing since you're multiplying your forces, but turn wise Malifaux games are too short to really utilize most of the things you'll create (since you need to get most of your armies work done on turns 2-3. Obviously this is a little different with a summoning focused master like Nicodem or Dreamer, but they have tools designed to be exceptional at it.

Command the Graves Toshiro with Mei Feng is a great upgrade and master choice, but I think you'll find you get more mileage by simply taking efficient constructs like Metal Gamin and Komainu and then using it where Scrap markers appear more naturally. Sensei Yu is great, as is Chiaki, as Condition control is vital, but healing summons is a bit excessive since one of their virtues is being expendable. If you take Yu, I think you're better served with Wandering River style to take push farther upfield to exploit the rail network.

[mattbird]

I'm also a very new player - Mei Feng is one of the horses in my stable (that hasn't really been given a chance to stretch her legs), and I was playing around with a theoretical idea similar to the discussed above as a summoning engine. What would you think to swapping wandering river style on Yu to Low river style? it therefore becomes: Emberling drops scrap, Toshiro summons Komainu off scrap and "fast"s another minion, Yu heals 2 damage on summoned komainu and removes slow. The big advantage of this is that it can all be done in Mei Feng's vent steam cloud as Yu's healing is ML. Chiaki could do a similar job, cheaper, but not inside a steam cloud and it's much more card reliant. Yu can even top up Emberling in the same action if he goes defensive with his first action, and borrow wings of wind from Mei Feng to keep the whole machine moving and more or less immune to CA or SH actions. Add Sparks into this - possibly giving the new komainu fast and carrying hard worker. Komainu run in and bite anything that gets too close, handing out burning. Mei Feng then goes in with positive flips, ignoring armour and hard to wound with a string of attacks.

Any thoughts?

I have found Wandering River style indispensible for moving scheme markers around. At 11 SS for 2 heals/turn, you could just hire 2 wastrels for 8 and get the same result? 

[MagicGis]

I feel like the strongest thing in thunders for mei is  Misdirection... I feel the amount of masks her crew wants is reasonable low. I also really like Toshiro with her, as well as one trapper. 

When I build her she tends to have a lot of minions... since the Metal Gamin cuddle I find it hard to build her full theme... which I liked for optical reasons on the table. 

However the Daimyo really likes all those minions, and his summoing works really well with railworkers that can provide scrap or corpse as the situation demands. 

The trapper offers some from the shadow to the relatively slow crew and can summon off tomes, traps unluckily for some reason unknown to mankind (probably because we have Mei but still BS from a logic standpoint) are no constructs, they cheaply denail some zones, he offers some range support with blasts and is reasonable priced. I really like more and more what he brings to the crew... besides I think the model is awesome. 

Misdirection just makes her so much more survivable and that for a relatively cheap price. Winds is nice too, but I feel like I wanna stop having Sensei everywhere... that kinda autoinclude tends to annoy me when it spreads to too many masters.  Also she kinda is the beatstick of the list and the most mobile element, so I tend to get her stuck in deep and find I kinda need the upgrade to make sure she stays alive.

I hope we get some mech porkchop models soon... right now with Rail Golem Kinda meh in most situations and Metal Gamin in the ground as a hire, the foundry imports are really rare... sparks will be interesting too.

[RarerMonsters]

Am I the only 10T player who doesn't put any faith in Misdirection?
 

It seems like the definitive newbie trap. It's good if your opponent doesn't know about it and bad otherwise.

First you need them to attack you with another model nearby. THEN they need to attack you with a mask or soulstone to spare. THEN you need two cards to toss. This on Mei, who already hurts for Upgrade slots, and you're really throwing all your resources at a trick that any smart opponent will play around just because you saw it work on scrubs a few times.

[BigHammer]

 

Am I the only 10T player who doesn't put any faith in Misdirection?
 

It seems like the definitive newbie trap. It's good if your opponent doesn't know about it and bad otherwise.

First you need them to attack you with another model nearby. THEN they need to attack you with a mask or soulstone to spare. THEN you need two cards to toss. This on Mei, who already hurts for Upgrade slots, and you're really throwing all your resources at a trick that any smart opponent will play around just because you saw it work on scrubs a few times.

I think you may be misreading Misdirection. Firstly, you can use it to move an attack from your master to one of your own models (yes, you need a mask, but when you put the damage on something like an Illuminated, that will just heal it all back next activation, for example, it's worth it), not just enemy models; you control where you put your own models, most of the time, so it's quite easy to use it as a ranged deterrent. Secondly, when you declare it, it doesn't cost you two cards to do, your opponent has to discard two cards for it to not work. If they don't have those cards, your master can become nigh invulnerable at worst, or make the enemy kill his own models at best. If they do have those cards, if your master is capable of taking a few hits (Misaki, Yan Lo, Mei Feng and Shenlong all don't mind a hit or two, depending on the situation), you can drain their control hand extremely quickly (for example, Misaki then has an easier time Assassinating stuff, while you gain a rather brutal hand advantage for everyone else anyway).

Misdirection is about forcing your opponent to make bad choices by only giving them bad choices. Sure, they can get a few wounds on your master, but it costs them their entire hand to do it, and then your master is pretty much unkillable if they have stones left or cards in hand (and your opponent doesn't have Joss or something that attacks Wp heavily; though even then 10T masters have high Wp almost across the board). If they don't, your master just goes about doing what they want unimpeded in the middle of the enemy crew. And if they try to damage your master from a safe distance, you can dump the hits off on an expendable or tougher model - Mei Feng could put a big hit onto a Rail Worker or Metal Gamin, for example, or Misaki could put the hit on Ototo to get him closer to being Enraged, etc.

It's my number one upgrade for 10T masters now, and there are only a few situations where I don't bother taking it. 

[RarerMonsters]

...

Misdirection is about forcing your opponent to make bad choices by only giving them bad choices. Sure, they can get a few wounds on your master, but it costs them their entire hand to do it, and then your master is pretty much unkillable if they have stones left or cards in hand (and your opponent doesn't have Joss or something that attacks Wp heavily; though even then 10T masters have high Wp almost across the board). If they don't, your master just goes about doing what they want unimpeded in the middle of the enemy crew. And if they try to damage your master from a safe distance, you can dump the hits off on an expendable or tougher model - Mei Feng could put a big hit onto a Rail Worker or Metal Gamin, for example, or Misaki could put the hit on Ototo to get him closer to being Enraged, etc.

It's my number one upgrade for 10T masters now, and there are only a few situations where I don't bother taking it. 

Okay, I was clearly misreading it. Thanks for the clarifications. I'll probably start running it on Yan Lo a lot more.

Still not sure about it on Mei Feng, I think Seismic Claws, Wings of Wind, and Recalled Training is too good a Combo, and you already have all the defense you need with Step Aside and Badass Pose.

 

Edited November 25, 2015 by RarerMonsters

[Adran]

One of the biggest advantages of Misdirection on Mei feng, is that she will get a trigger off on every mask for defence. She normally is in a ball of models when she is being attacked, thanks to her normally being uinder Vent steam protection if she isn't engaged, so it eitehr forces a 2 card discard, or probably stops a second attack coming her way. 

[daemonkin]

People sometimes forget that Vent Steam stacks so if you are facing the standard Belle Bunker from Nico or a shooty Guild crew rail walk and a (1) vent steam will put all Ca and Sh at  to all models within 4" of Mei.

Catches some opponents off-guard.

D.

[MagicGis]

Isnt Bad Ass Pose a pulse and as such does not work on Mei herself?

Also I don't see step aside working against misdirection. Yes both need masks but thats about it. 

I actually think thats a positive one wants low masks one high and medium ones are never dead. Step aside protects when you didnt want to be close to a model or if you couldn't reach it may actually pushes you close enough to make your low masks deadly.

 

For me the two abilities form a nice unit. Making it difficult to even attack mei if she is somewhat close to your master or anything important and maybe has a high card to push there and stones left to misdirect.

[RarerMonsters]

Badass Pose on others means you can safely jam people up with her other models so you aren't taking the whole enemy force at once. It's a valuable defensive screen.

[Rurouni Benshin]

Am I the only 10T player who doesn't put any faith in Misdirection?
 

It seems like the definitive newbie trap. It's good if your opponent doesn't know about it and bad otherwise.

First you need them to attack you with another model nearby. THEN they need to attack you with a mask or soulstone to spare. THEN you need two cards to toss. This on Mei, who already hurts for Upgrade slots, and you're really throwing all your resources at a trick that any smart opponent will play around just because you saw it work on scrubs a few times.

Part of understanding the strategy with Mei Feng is that she's not the type of Master to send after singular targets.  She's the Master you send after groups of Minions and Peons primarily, while the rest of your crew runs schemes, and your other dedicated Beatsticks go after your enemy's larger targets.  For me, that model is Kang most of the time.  Mei Feng (Ml 6 and 2/4/5 damage spread) is good, but if you want something dead quicker,  you send Kang (Ml 7 and 3/4/6 damage spread). 

That said, I always make a point to go after a group of models with Mei Feng, so someone can be a legal target for Misdirection.  Not usually that hard early on, and with her Rail Walking, it's not hard to engage her in combat on Turn 1.  Worst case scenario, and when there aren't any enemy targets to redirect to, I try to have a Metal Gamin (or something else cheap and resilient) that she can redirect to.  Better my 4 ss minion get hit than her, at least.  Having a full cache helps as well.

That said, Misdirection is a lot harder to play around than you might realize.  Part of the trick is also having the right models supporting her, and prioritizing the rest of your crew's attacks.  She's strong enough to hold her own against a few Minions, while you send Kang after their bigger targets.  If an experienced Mei Feng player finds himself against a dedicated beatstick, they'll usually have someone close by to help.  For me, it's usually Kang, or a Thunder Archer within range of Blot the Sky. 

As for upgrade slots, I find that the 3 are plenty.  My staple upgrades are Vapormancy, Misdirection, and either Price of Progress or Seismic Claws.  If "Make Them Suffer" is on the board, I would take Price of Progress, and go Minion Hunting.  If not, then it's Seismic Claw.  Recalled Training is nice, but with the amount of Burning your crew should be giving out, it's mitigated considerably.  Most of my attacks lead off with "Scalding Breath", which apply Burning after getting hit, and at Ca 7 vs Df, you're usually hitting.  Follow up with Tiger Claw, and then depending on my other upgrades, I could trigger happy go all out against who I'm fighting, or kill something outright and draw a card.

[marzmanbill]

I'm a new player to Mz Feng, and my typical opponent is the dreamer, usually with the summoning style.  I've the box set, samurai and thunder archers.  What would I look at to help me with my typical matchup, I'm finding the dreamer to be out activating me and out moving me from the gitgo.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[volt_ron]

I'd probably start with something like with what you have:

Mei Fang

• Wings of Wind
• Seismic Claws/Vapormancy
• Recalled Training

Kang (second wave/babysit archers)

• Blot the Sky

Archers x2

Rail Workers x3

Emberling

4ss left over for 7ss cache.  

This gives you a lot of decent ranged with blasts to try and cull the tide if the summoning gets out of hand.  The archers can also shoot into melee once your workers get in there. 

Edited November 30, 2015 by volt_ron

[daemonkin]

For me Kang desn't make it in unless I'm facing Ressers or Arcanists or Reckoning is the Strategy or Bodyguard is in the scheme pool. Tosh I find is far better at most things.

D.

[Rurouni Benshin]

For me Kang desn't make it in unless I'm facing Ressers or Arcanists or Reckoning is the Strategy or Bodyguard is in the scheme pool. Tosh I find is far better at most things.

D.

I've used Kang in non-Reckoning games before, and he's actually worked out pretty well.  Most recently, I played him in a Reconnoiter game, which I had won 9-4 against Levi.  Granted, Make Them Suffer was also on the board, of which Kang earned me 2 of the 3 points for (the first point coming when he didn't have any Minions or Peons on the board for one turn).  Most of my opponents that I've faced with Kang have a difficult time avoiding him, be they an Arcanist or Ressurrectionist Master.

It was also in this game that I got to use the Mechanized Porkchop with Mei Feng as well.  He unfortunately died very early (Lazarus flipped RJ on it's first hit against him), but if not for him, Mei Feng wouldn't have been able to engage his Lazarus and Coryphee that same turn.  Looking forward to trying Sparks eventually.

[mattbird]

I agree with the above: Wings of Wind + Sensei Yu with wandering river style. 

My usual crew is a komainu summon spam list, with the emberling shooting off scrap, which toshiro makes komainu, and the wastrel heals. Mei runs off on her own being annoying while the rest get stuff done : 

Mei, wings, seismic, hard worker

Yu, river style

Toshiro, command the graves

2 metal gamin, wastrel, illuminated, emberling

 

 

Ran this list (primarily) for the recent Tri-State league in the United States, won the crown. In 4 games with it I killed 0 models lol. 

[marzmanbill]

Thanks for the insights, I see lots of Wings of Wind in lists as well as Toshiro.  Think I'll try Tosh with summoning

[daemonkin]

I would typically only summon with Tosh turn 1 or 2 from the Emberling dropping scrap. The Emberling is a 3SS incorporeal minion. He's a real threat for Recon or any scheme placement.

Later in the game if there are corpses or scraps around and it's advantageous to do so i will summon. Mechanised Porkchop might be a good move (dropping a scrap once per turn after a move) but yet to use it in a game.

My go-to upgrades for Mei typically are Seismic Claws (for extra attacks on multiple targets) Vapormancy for a 3" attack that gives burning and recalled training for when I see an opening to dive straight in and go for it.

D.

[mattbird]

If you are going to drop 2 scrap from Emberling, may as well go all the way and do 4, as at that point he is one hit away from dying and leaving no counters?

I like the idea of replacing him with the Porkchop, but will wait for the model.

[daemonkin]

If he's on 2 wds I'd much rather have him contest a recon, drop a scheme for Protect territory or do something useful. It catches opponents out that he is a minion and can be a scoring piece.

D.

[Rurouni Benshin]

If he's on 2 wds I'd much rather have him contest a recon, drop a scheme for Protect territory or do something useful. It catches opponents out that he is a minion and can be a scoring piece.

D.

This has saved me from a game before too.  Between the Emberling and Luna, they are the most useful totems for the faction.

[daemonkin]

I've a super weasel and a giant drugged sperm creature who would disagree with that but yes we have some great totems.

Although in the UK Nationals my peasant smacked a forested waldgeist who was preventing me from grabbing a head marker. The attack hit and the trigger pushed the waldgeist back, forcing the trees to disappear and a fast tengu to swoop in and grab the marker! That peasant got promoted!

D.

[mattbird]

If he's on 2 wds I'd much rather have him contest a recon, drop a scheme for Protect territory or do something useful. It catches opponents out that he is a minion and can be a scoring piece.

D.

This has saved me from a game before too.  Between the Emberling and Luna, they are the most useful totems for the faction.

it's not that I'm disputing any of that- just that you end up trading 1 model that can be 1-shot killed (Emberling) for 2 models that cannot be 1-shot killed (2 Komainu), and have the same mobility. 

[ukrocky]

Between the Emberling and Luna, they are the most useful totems for the faction.

Someone's not played enough Lynch and Huggy...!