Metal Gamin Errata

[mythicFOX]

So the November FAQ has landed and we Arcanists (plus Levi & Hoffman) are waking up to a slightly different Metal Gamin this morning.

In summery; Protection of Metal can no longer target Metal Gamin, so no protecting themselves. They also lost Hard to Kill.

This probably re-aligns them back to supporting a tar-pit, rather than being the tar-pit.  I don't think this will change my hiring choices all that much but will probably open up my Mech Rider's summoning choices quite a bit.  So I'm neutral on this change overall.

What do you guys think?

[cryion]

Neutral. They kind of needed it.

[Math Mathonwy]

I do agree that they needed a change and it is good that they were changed.

HtK made them such a no-brainer summon for Mech Rider which now opens up nicely.

I used to hire them in some number but that might change now. The Protection mechanic is really neat but I've had huge trouble making it work for anyone besides themselves. It is very restrictive at least to my playstyle. So a bit sad that I will be using them a lot less but happy that Mech Rider will summon other things as well (they still make a nice enough summon for her and that's the one time where Protection can be made to work).

[Freman]

They're still as useful to Hoffman as they ever were. One following him around giving him Ca8 and someone to dump slow on to get fast.

For those who used them as summons or tar pits, no, they wouldn't be as good any more. 0n the other hand, how good is a 4SS minion supposed to be? If only one type of minion was in regular use, that suggests that it was noticeably better than minions of the same SS cost.

[Spike0738]

I can't say I'm surprised. Saddened, but I'm not surprised. 

I was just kind of hoping that the cost would reflect their power, but they went the other way and changed it

Edited November 5, 2015 by Spike0738

[bertmac]

Saddened. Protection of metal cuddle is fine but with loss of htk as well that is a big loss. I think a slight improvement to the duration of protection of metal is required as otherwise it seems really situational and therefore not particularly good.

Cynical side of me thinks due to the bloat from wave 3 this is a way to make other models more appealing!

 

[November's Wrath]

Well i never played metal gamins protecting themselves. it just kinda felt like it wasn't meant from the  start..
the loss of htk is pretty brutal... but again it opens up playing moleman so is kinda good to have a little bit of choice..
Grrr for having to use printed cards

[Adran]

Largely Indifferent to the change. 

I think there would have been much more uproar if they changed their cost, as losing Mech Rider summoning would have made them very questionable. I've only ever felt I've got my monies worth from them when I get to use Magnetism. Games without constructs have made them unhappy. #

I would like the next book to come with a 1 ss upgrade that gives all friendly metal gamin in play hard to kill back. I don't know if I would take them still, but it would let them still do what most people want them for. 

[Math Mathonwy]

Saddened. Protection of metal cuddle is fine but with loss of htk as well that is a big loss. I think a slight improvement to the duration of protection of metal is required as otherwise it seems really situational and therefore not particularly good.

I wish it checked the ending condition at the end of the turn and not always. It's not like Df 6 is game-breaking on Arcanists.

[Sordid Strumpet]

I'm glad they changed it, it was a hell of a model for 4 points. Stick it in the middle of something, protect itself and go def2 for free and surcpvive anyone and everyone wailing on you? 

They were so good, I felt like I was sabotaging myself summoning ice gamin, fire gamin or mannequins. Now I don't have to deliberate as much. Turn 1: ice gamin near a silent ine, turn 2: fire gamin, especially if I'm running Kaeris. And if I'm playing Colette I'll make two mannequins before starting to summon other stuff.

[bertmac]

Saddened. Protection of metal cuddle is fine but with loss of htk as well that is a big loss. I think a slight improvement to the duration of protection of metal is required as otherwise it seems really situational and therefore not particularly good.

I wish it checked the ending condition at the end of the turn and not always. It's not like Df 6 is game-breaking on Arcanists.

End of turn or next time the gamin activates or is removed from play would be ok. Or make it a 3" aura like the mounted guards defensive stance.

[MagicGis]

I am sorry  while I agree with some of the errata the second half is a giant slap in the face to me. 

I think we can all agree that they should not metal protection themselves, def, sturdiness, and dmg where way too good through that. 

However losing hard to kill is just wrong. 

Why? 

 

Well consider this, I just bought Mei Feng, a pack of Metal Gamin and a Rail Golem ... I am mainly ten Thunders player.  Now hear me out. 

We have no cheap constructs in faction besides the Railworkers and one effigy... the only way to get more Railworkers is to buy a second pack of Mei... so they basically cost 45 for 3 more. Now what makes Mei Unique is her chaining especially railwalk... We have no Construct Henchman in Ten thunders, we have nothing besides emberling that drops scrap...

If I can not play a lot of cheap constructs. Mei just has nothing special... I have no fatties I can jump off.. for some reason Fire gamin are not foundry... so how I am supposed to play her now. 

I think we all regulary play against armor ignoring... if I bring Mei my opponent stacks it... first few games that already clear. Now I can either buy another Mei Pack for Railworkers... I can give up her signature playstyle (aka how she was supposed to be played) or I can accept that perdita now with ease kills 8 points of Gamin a turn, leaving me with immobile teleport spots as well. 

They will basically never use Metal protection now which would be ok, dmg cuddle and less def was necessary. But without hard to kill they simply do nothing besides dropping a scrap... thats it.

They have no dmg, they have no ability...since even if you dont play for railwalk placing it checks always not end of turn. They can´t tank nothing since they will just be oneshot by everything from perdita, Levi, or even Hans. 

Now Mei was not the most competitive to begin with but the most fun... now I basically handycap myself whenever I wanna play her Ten thunders as intended (jumping Kung fu Master).

 

If I have a master that gets screwed so hard by the errata of a single minion that shows me two things. 

1.) Wyrd did not think this errata through or they would have seen that and either kept hard to kill or at least made his ability usable by checking end of turn or enlarging the aura

2.) Wyrd did not think through the design of Mei Feng in Ten thunders, they did not think through their releases otherwise their would be a railworker box... 

I will not call for my money back here since they try to increase the balance... but I canceled my order of new minis for this month... I see no reason to support further until I can have trust that  future balancing decisions are thought through enough to not massivly hamper the master they are themed for (Mei Feng) while being vitually uninteresting to masters that actually abuse them outside the original intent (Hoff). 

 

tl.dr: 

I agree that Metal protection needed to be changed and metal gamin where to good, but the removal of hard to kill destroyed their identity and made it incredible hard to effectively play Mei in Thununders theme as she was intended. I am dissapointed by the  Hammer approach instead of a though through rewording.

[Math Mathonwy]

We have no cheap constructs in faction besides the Railworkers and one effigy...

What about Komainu? They even have that tiny bit of Burning synergy. And Toshiro can Summon them from Emberling Scrap.

We have no Construct Henchman in Ten thunders, we have nothing besides emberling that drops scrap...

Book three gave Mei two sources of Scrap: The Emissary and the Mechanized Porkchop.

[Bengt]

 There is also Bunraku for 6.

[cryion]

This sounds like a major over-reaction.
Granted, I dont use her in TT, but how is 3 Workers + Emberling not more than enough? Especially if you are using Rail Golem as well?

How is Armor 2 still not very good for those gamins? Because there is a potential for armor ignore? Id be more worried about the Rail Golem because that goes down almost as quickly as a gamin and Im pretty sure he gets focused down first.

/2c

[Lucidicide]

Obsidian Oni can also drop Scrap.

[Rogue1]

Well now people will stop looking at me funny when my mech rider summons fire gamin.  For some reason I always got a funny look doing that right up until the gamin started shooting things.

[Patzer]

The Metal Gamin will still be the toughest Gamin around, and one of the tougher low cost minions around. Effigys are hardier (but rare 1), Depleted cannot interact, same with Night Terrors; can't think of anyone else. Armor +2 is no joke! 

As for TT Mei Feng, she got plenty of (new) other options, and MG isn't bad post errata either.  

[Fetid Strumpet]

As an aside, I would imagine that Rail workers are on the slate for individual release. The initial plastics were cast on the same sprues, but Wyrd has been separating out the minions from the boxed sets and making them separately available. Ashigaru were originally only available in Yan Lo's box, and they are now available separately. I don't know when, but I assume the Rail Workers will be available separately at a point coming up.

[RarerMonsters]

 

...

If I can not play a lot of cheap constructs. Mei just has nothing special... I have no fatties I can jump off.. for some reason Fire gamin are not foundry... so how I am supposed to play her now. 

I think we all regulary play against armor ignoring... if I bring Mei my opponent stacks it...

If your opponent brings anti-armored anti-construct tech you should expect your 4 ss constructs to die. That's just how it is.
And your opponent can't bring this against Mei Feng, they can only pick against your Faction.

first few games that already clear. Now I can either buy another Mei Pack for Railworkers... I can give up her signature playstyle (aka how she was supposed to be played) or I can accept that perdita now with ease kills 8 points of Gamin a turn, leaving me with immobile teleport spots as well. 

Gamin are 4ss minions, Perdita can kill two of pretty much any 4 ss minion per turn. The difference is that they have an excellent attack (Magnetism, which is fantastic at getting through armored constructs and producing great mobility)

They still benefit from free Df stance and Mei Feng can vent steam to make it difficult for shooty minions to drop them easily.

They will basically never use Metal protection now which would be ok, dmg cuddle and less def was necessary. But without hard to kill they simply do nothing besides dropping a scrap... thats it.

That's enough. If you're trying to build Mei's Rail network then the scrap off a 4ss they had to spend resources killing is enough to expect. Again, 4ss

They have no dmg, they have no ability...since even if you dont play for railwalk placing it checks always not end of turn. They can´t tank nothing since they will just be oneshot by everything from perdita, Levi, or even Hans. 

You need a 4 damage ignoring armor or a 6 damage not ignoring armor. Not even most masters can get that reliably without spending cards to cheat. And, again, 4ss. Cheap minions die when Masters look at them.

Now Mei was not the most competitive to begin with but the most fun... now I basically handycap myself whenever I wanna play her Ten thunders as intended (jumping Kung fu Master).

 

I think you're expecting too much out of Railwalk. That is an option to improve Mei's abilties but it's not the be all end all of using her well. Playing with her I rarely chain railwalks more than one or two turns, most times once you're in the thick of things you're better off charging and you generally only need railwalk to escape bad situations or get to a scheme marker. At that point, having dropped an upfield scrap is enough.

It's a huge cuddle no doubt, but I still see Metal Gamin being one of the best picks for a Mei Feng list at their cost and I think further play will only remove the brainless quality of exploiting Protection of Metal.

[quietlimit]

I regularly play and win with 10T Mei Feng with zero or one Metal Gamin.  I feel like the above is a pretty strong overreaction.  Rail Workers are still fantastic for the cost, and you really don't need more than three or so constructs on the table with Mei to make her work.  Metal Gamin were (and still are) nice, but consider other options that will accentuate her abilities that aren't necessarily constructs.   Take the opportunity to try out lists that aren't so construct heavy.  For example, putting in a shooting base with Mei is a great combo that causes your opponents to come to you a bit and then get jumped on.

 

Edit:  Also, everything RarerMonsters said, especially "I think you're expecting too much out of Railwalk. That is an option to improve Mei's abilties but it's not the be all end all of using her well. Playing with her I rarely chain railwalks more than one or two turns, most times once you're in the thick of things you're better off charging and you generally only need railwalk to escape bad situations or get to a scheme marker. At that point, having dropped an upfield scrap is enough."

Edited November 5, 2015 by quietlimit

[dgraz]

  For example, putting in a shooting base with Mei is a great combo that causes your opponents to come to you a bit and then get jumped on.

Or combine the shooting idea with those Obsidian Oni Aaron mentioned above to drop Scrap Markers at the enemy's feet.

[Fog]

Fire gamin were a better summon in 70% of cases anyway. This is a buff to players who crutched on metal gamin.

[Luca 2.0]

Hey guys, in my opinion now metal gamin are weak! If before they were a good option for most arcanist's crews, and also for Mei even if she is not picked as arcanist. Now they are weak, no damage, armor +2 still strong but not if u summon them with mechanical rider, and why they deserve to lose their hard to kill???
I gues that now rail worker is much more strong. even if u don't use Mei u can use the rail worker 5 points istead of 4 but he hits hard and he has hardo to kill.
They become an horrible choise for being summoned by mech rider, someone can tell me in an arcanist crew when i should use them and why?

[decker_cky]

Amusingly with the Perdita vs Mei complaints, Mei crews are still some of the most resilient to Perdita because vent steam puts her in a bad place. 

Regarding rail workers with Mei, a single one is amazing, a second one and the discarding is pretty expensive, and a third one means you're wasting resources. 

As of wave 3 though, Mei has plenty of other worthwhile constructs and scrap sources in 10T. 

But metal gamin are still worthwhile. A different ending for protection, or a larger aura would have been much better (even just 4"), but it can still be situationally worthwhile. Magnetism is still a situational, but potent ability. They've ceased to be a perfect generalist, but unless you're playing gremlins, you generally can't get that out of a 4ss model. 

I do like that this change makes steam arachnids a relevant hiring choice again. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by decker_cky