Wave 1 Arsenal Decks

[s0ule55]

Are the Wave 1 Arsenal decks out of print now? I just got back into the game, and I'd really rather not have to re-buy everything just to get stat cards. Apologies if this has already been asked, but my search-fu is weak.

[Fetid Strumpet]

From what I understand they are no longer being produced, but there are a lot of unsold decks still out there. In addition many people have lots of unused cards. I have a number of unused TT and Arcanist cards, as an example.

[Gnomezilla]

I have had no trouble ordering arsenal decks through my game store.

[s0ule55]

As far as I can tell, all the stores in my area are sold out of the "popular" faction decks. I found a TT deck and Gremlins. Everything else is Wave 2. I've got the deck for my main faction, but I've got a wide range of models that I got back in 1st edition.

[flightmek25]

I cannot find Wave 1 cards for Guild and I just dumped a bunch of money into a counts-as Sonnia Criid crew. I intended on using the male multi-part kit, the original Sonnia box (which I just purchased) and some other bits to design my own Renegade-Guild Crew, but I have hit a brick wall because I can't get the cards I need.

Wyrd, if you have opted to stop printing cards then I think you've made a terrible mistake for the following reasons:

1.) Cards get lost, stolen, or destroyed. If my only option is to replace them by buying a new model kit, then I won't.

2.) Your game is the most character-driven I have ever seen on a tabletop. Don't punish me for being creative and wanting to design my own characters with your model kits (new and old).

3.) If Privateer Press can continue to print faction decks, then so can you.

As someone who has been with you since the relative beginning, I beg you to make your cards  readily available. I would even been willing to pay for a PDF version that I have to print and cut out myself.

Thanks for your time,

John

[solkan]

Concerning 1, from the Gaining Grounds document:

Players must physically possess the official up-to-date versions of stat cards for organized play. The cards may be photo-copied from the Malifaux 2nd Edition rulebook, or printed from an official digital release (such as with cards that have official errata).

Quite officially, you can just photocopy the cards out of the book and laminate them if you need to make replacements or if you're using custom built models.

The rulebook cards do look the same as the printed cardstock cards (although the printed cards do tend to have additional artwork for the multiple pose models).  You can buy PDF versions of the rulebook from Drive Thru RPG, even:  http://drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/5162/Wyrd-Miniatures?term=wyrd

Malifaux Core Rulebook 2nd edition is the book with the wave one cards; the Crossroads book has the wave three cards, and Shifting Loyalties has the wave three cards.  And the Drive Thru RPG PDFs are official digital releases.

You may have to do a little bit of cleaning up the edges, since the books tend to put artwork or page edging behind the cards; so maybe it's worth campaigning for the book PDFs to include the cards in a cleaner format. 

2.  The model listings in the Warmachine/Hordes rulebooks don't look like the Warmachine/Hordes cards.  The Malifaux model listings do like like the Malifaux cards.  and 3.  The Privateer Press faction decks don't include any of the new models from Mark II, so they're not particularly helpful in many cases.  Convergence players, or people who accidentally spill water on their cards for the models that came out in Mk II, go straight to paying for individual cards from the parts store. 

Just my two cents as someone who has old and new cards and books from both companies, and who has accidentally ruined a few cards not in the Mk II faction boxes.

 

Edited November 7, 2015 by solkan

[flightmek25]

Solkan, thanks for responding. I didn't realize you could officially use photocopied cards. That's helpful, but unfortunately the cards in the book are not the right size and would take reformatting and/or artsy-craftsy fixes to make work.

Also, I am not sure what you're trying to prove with the Warmachine reference. At the end of the day, one can still purchase cards, right? I was only using Privateer Press as an example to display that cards can be made available and I personally think they should be.

Finally, I would prefer the option to buy the cards or have a digital (properly sized) version I could easily print and cut. That's all.

In either case, I appreciate your input. I'll be printing the cards soon. Thanks!

[Bengt]

The cards in the books are slightly larger (~6%) than the "proper" cards, if you are using scan/print or a somewhat modern photocopier you could adjust the output size. If you have the physical books it will be hard to scan the cards closer to the spine without damaging the book though.

---

Nathan stated a while back that they were looking at other solutions for physical cards as Arsenal Decks were not profitable.

[LordZombie]

From a business stand point, it makes sense. M2E is now 3 years old. If you were playing 1.5 and are just now getting into m2e, the ship has sailed is way out to sea. Wyrd is not going to cater to players sitting around thinking if they want to play. By now, they got rid of all their metals and any ideas of 1.5 and they want players to do the same. Even the older plastic boxes have been remade with the m2e cards. So yeah, after all these years, there is little reason to keep the card decks around. 

[Gabbi]

Well, Wyrd has rulebooks already on DriveThruRPG, they offer a service for cards, too. I suppose uploading arsenal decks to be just printed on demand would require a near-zero investment.

[Arizona]

I joined the forum to reiterate sOule55 and flightmek25's post.  I stop by periodically to see if cards are going to be made available for purchase.  The lack of Wave 1 Guild cards is a barrier for my re-entry into the game.  I have a decent collection of guild models for which I lack cards and PDF printouts aren't a particularly desirable option.  Until cards are available, my hobby dollars go to Infinity, Fantasy Flight, and Privateer Press.

[ArcticPangolin]

As others have said, the Arsenal decks have been around for some time now, and are not a profitable item. From a business standpoint there really is little reason to continue producing them, the only drawback being alienating players such as yourself or those who acquire old models down the line. It seems making a new run in worthwhile quantities would leave large piles of merchandise gathering dust on the shelves of LGS' and in Wyrd's warehouse.

If I were in your position, I would be looking to produce my own cards. It's really not hard and I have done it myself for EVERY Guild and Ten Thunder model for M2E, Crossroads and Shifting Loyalties until the official cards became available. Just print them out and stick 'em in plastic protector sleeves, and if you ever get the real deals you can swap them out.

[Omenbringer]

For those that need Wave 1 Arsenal Decks (and are in the US or willing to pay for overseas shipping), one of my local game stores has quite a few (along with the older metal models if you prefer them) in stock. PM and I'll will send you the details.

What is a bit funny to me about this thread is how much the forum opinion about the Arsenal Decks seems to have shifted. It wasn't that long ago that they were being rather fervently defended as a worthwhile buy for everyone, now it seems that they are viewed as only marketable to returning players.

[Manxfaux]

I've got some Guild wave 1 cards on order with Wayland games in the UK since early September. They have told me they have not been advised that they are no longer available, just that they are "temporarily out of stock with the manufacturer with no estimated restock date at present".

It would be nice to know the official line from Wyrd tbh, just to put peoples' minds at rest. It was always going to happen that they would stop being manufactured, and if that time is now I can stop waiting for my order to be filled and make other arrangements. Otherwise I might as well hang on.

[Omenbringer]

They have told me they have not been advised that they are no longer available, just that they are "temporarily out of stock with the manufacturer with no estimated restock date at present".

Seem to recall something like that being stated with Terraclips sets long before they were officially declared dead by competent authority.

[solkan]

I think this is the relevant post concerning Wyrd not wanting to reprint the Arsenal decks and working on a better alternative:  http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/110836-returning-player-questions/?do=findComment&comment=884890

 

[Manxfaux]

Interesting.

If they are on the verge of releasing a solution that would be good. Personally I'd be happy to pay for access to a document with properly sized cards that I could print myself (although not too much, studies have shown printer ink costs more per litre than human blood). Scanning and printing from the rulebooks would be a much more viable option if they had designed the layout with this eventuality in mind, but there are far too many card faces that are too close to the spine to get a decent quality scan.

My peev in all this is that "Temporarily Out of Stock" tag. If they are not being printed due to the fact that they would require a massive print run to remain commercially viable products, yet don't sell well enough to justify that investment, then just mark them as "Discontinued" and move on. Other online stockists can be notified and people can stop ordering them.

People will understand. It's a business decision with a logical reason behind it. There's no reason to drag it out as a 'maybe' if in reality it's most likely a never. That's just frustrating and something GW would do because they don't give two hoots about their player base.

If there is actually a possibility of another restock of the wave 1s then there must be something holding it back. I'm only guessing prices but would a smaller print run that would cost end users $16/£12 be worth it? Or would the cost be even higher? I saw a wave 1 Guild box go for £25 on eBay just the other day so there is obviously a demand.

[Pete Zero]

I'm a fair bit clumsy and I like the arsenal decks as a way to replace my lost or damaged cards. I only discovered this game a few months back and in that time I managed to loose a set of Rasputina's box cards (think I left them at a club) and my mechanical rider showed up with an ugly misprinted card (the wound counters were wrong), so the decks let me replace those and have backups for the next time I do something like this.

I really like my cards to be the same size, and quality. I personally wouldn't mind if the wave decks are done away with as long as there is a way for me to get replacement cards for such situations without having to buy the models again.

Another good thing about the cards for me was that before my group started playing we were able to buy the decks and read them easily spread out on a table instead of flicking back and forth in a book (which for me is the main selling point of stat cards) and then decide which model boxes we wanted to buy.

[Gabbi]

If Wyrd will be offering again cards, maybe as singles (as PP does and as Wyrd used to do during 1.5 times, if I recall correctly) a nice thing would be selling updated versions of cards that changed (i.e. Metal Gamins), adding something like 1.1, 1.2, etc to tell apart different versions and tell at a glance which one is the newest.

Digital print makes short print runs possible, and/or selling individual cards makes possible to sell them at a higher price: i.e. 50 cents per card would be fine to me, and this would be a higher price than deck cost divided per cards included. Of course you have to take in account unsold stuff, cards for less popular models that sell slowly than others, etc but I suppose that using digital printing you can adjust print runs according to what sells the most. Also there's the manpower cost to be accounted (someone has to sort out cards and pack them to buyers). But I think is something worth to consider doing, as the request seems high.

Actually, I'm done with cards, but knowing that if one day I'll ever somewhat lose my cards I would be able to replace them, it would be a nice thing.

[Pierowmaniac]

I'd like to see printable (correctly sized) PDF cards available.

Makes sense

[s0ule55]

I would be okay if someone just came out and said they were no longer being produced. It's the "temporarily out of stock" that's annoying. I'll look into the PDF cards, and as long as I can use them in an event (if I ever end up going to one) it's a pseudo-fix. Though, if they're not necessarily the correct size that's another minor annoyance.

[Gnomezilla]

I have to update. I was able to order Wave 1 arsenal decks without a problem in October. Now, a few weeks after that, none of them can be ordered.

And I agree with Pete Zero, the deck was a good way for me to learn a little more about the play potential of the cards within it. I wish I had gotten all the cards for all my models in the crew box but I do not regret buying the arsenal deck because I got much more than one card out of it.

[ArcticPangolin]

I definitely think that PDF's would be a fantastic alternative. I can understand that they are much easier to pirate though.

[Omenbringer]

I definitely think that PDF's would be a fantastic alternative. I can understand that they are much easier to pirate though.

No more so than just photocopying them out of the book or from another persons cards?

What would be really nice is if you could select your crew from the websites official crew creator (when it comes back up) and then had the option to print the model cards and upgrades from there. Might make errata's easier too.

[ArcticPangolin]

I definitely think that PDF's would be a fantastic alternative. I can understand that they are much easier to pirate though.

No more so than just photocopying them out of the book or from another persons cards?

What would be really nice is if you could select your crew from the websites official crew creator (when it comes back up) and then had the option to print the model cards and upgrades from there. Might make errata's easier too.

Touche! I guess I'm still thinking whole faction rather than individual models.

That sounds amazing and almost too techy for someone of my age. I am thankful that there's not terribly much on stat cards that gets errata'd in Malifaux.