M2E Ironsides

[Jordon]

I actually get a lot of success with running a high versatility list. What I mean by that is models that are great from ranged and melee. This way I can choose what style of play I want Ironsides to go and have my crew back me up. So models such as Willie, Gunsmiths, Ox mage (with combat casting) and the Firestarter. Johan is also just too good too pass on even if he's slow.

The only M&SU option I really don't bother with is Union Miners. Not just because they are not available currently (but that is a factor) but mainly because I just don't really see their value. I think they suffer from being too generic and so they are quite often overshadowed by better, more specialized options. False Claim is neat, but we exist in a faction with the mech rider who I think bring's more at 12ss than two union miners at 10ss. Thats just my opinion though

[Armored]

I think the purpose of the union miners if very specific schemes (Set Up, Plant explosives or anything that you need to get a good amount of scheme markers in a small space.) That being said i would be hard pressed to ever bring more then one union miner. Not that they are bad just I think that a union miner + performer will do so much more work in schemes then 2 union miner will do.

[Bengt]

14 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Sorry, I thought imbued energies went without saying.

I wouldn't use IE on such a lack lustre attack so I didn't even think about it.  If I were to put IE on Firestarter at all it would be because I had some Scheme related plan for it.

[Corey3977]

Today I played a 50ss game with my friend who is just getting into Malifaux. He was taking Von Schill for the second time so I decided this would be a good time to try out Ironsides again, making it my second time with her.

Not going to go into huge turn by turn detail here, but will provide some insight to the game. We called it at the end of turn 3  when I was up 5-1 with free reign to score heavily turn 4.

Key points:
The Firestarter with Imbued Energues is becoming my favourite scheme runner. Completed 'Leave Your Mark' by himself.

Ironsides wrecked face - removed half of Killjoys wounds (including the death touch) and solo'd Von Schill like a boss. 

Using Ironsides 'Looking At Me' (think that is what it is called) ability on your own models to move into threat range and out of threat range (Killjoy was licking his lips at the sight of an Oxfordian mage and Gunsmith)

Two Oxfordian Mages is probably not warranted - just haven't gotten the mileage out of them. Considering Cassandra.

Railworkers are gods amongst men. Two are definitely worth considering.

Despite his poor showing today, I will never give up my love of Willie. And yes, phrasing.

[Jordon]

I'd like to post the question to those who may have used these models more than I have. I'm curious as to what you'd prefer to take, if you could only take one:

Soulstone Miner vs Large Arachnid

Metal Gamin vs Steam Arachnid

I know obviously it's scheme dependant, but just thinking generally, which do you prefer?

It's really tough between the miner and the arachnid because both bring a lot to offset some of Ironsides weaknesses. The miner makes an excellent scheme runner, and can help keep Toni topped up with stones if she's chewing through them too fast. The LSA is a great anti scheme runner and has an amazing damage track to make use of HPM. Both are able to deal with armor, which can be a real nightmare for ironsides.

The Gamin versus arachnid is also tough since the gamin makes for a great bodyguard for Toni if she happens to be playing more defensive/controlling. The spider however works better offensively. One cool trick is to line up 2 spiders directly in front of Ironsides and have Toni drag a model in (seeing over/through the spiders). The model would stop in base contact with the spiders, reducing it's defence by 1 or 2 and allow Toni to start wailing on it. If the model has only a 1" range then your looking even better. 

Has anyone tried out these models with Toni - if so, how did they perform?

[Corey3977]

I have not but now I must after reading that.

[Armored]

6 hours ago, Jordon said:

I'd like to post the question to those who may have used these models more than I have. I'm curious as to what you'd prefer to take, if you could only take one:

Soulstone Miner vs Large Arachnid

Metal Gamin vs Steam Arachnid

 

Now i haven't had the chance to use Large Arachnid But i used soulstone miner often enough. It does make a great scheme runner durable as well if you want to burn the stones for prevention. That said i personally dont feel like it will brawl nearly as well as the large arachnid being able to eat scheme markers and scheme markers. while the Same SS cost they are hard to compare. but i will often bring soulstone miner even if there is no scheme needed for him as From below lets me place him in position that can put on a lot of pressure.

 

For the Metal Gamin vs Steam Arachnid i dont think i would really start with either in my lists but i will gladly summon in More spiders over gamin with a Mech Rider simply because higher speed, higher defense, evasion, and latch on. Also with in my expierance armor 1 And armor 2 not being a huge difference when you are summoned in with only 2 wounds remaining anyways.

[Math Mathonwy]

On ‎23‎.‎4‎.‎2016 at 1:55 AM, Jordon said:

Soulstone Miner vs Large Arachnid

As you note, the comparison is really difficult to make since they perform such different functions. I really, really LSA with Ironsides, though. It is absolutely nuts - like a Railworker on steroids. Since they now come two to a box, I believe that we'll start seeing people taking two with Ironsides. It's only problem is that it is pretty slow but OTOH Ironsides lists tend to have ways around that.

[trikk]

Did someone try using Imbued Protection on Ironsides?

 

Arcanists
50ss Crew

Ironsides -- 6ss
 +Frontline Leadership - 2ss
 +Imbued Protection - 2ss
 +Warding Runes - 1ss

Essence Of Power - 3ss

Arcane Effigy - 4ss

Gunsmith - 7ss

Joss - 10ss
 +Warding Runes - 1ss
 +Imbued Energies - 1ss

Oxfordian Mage - 6ss
 +Blood Ward - 0ss

Oxfordian Mage - 6ss
 +Doom Ward - 0ss

Soulstone Miner - 6ss
 

(Wards are random, I would probably take conditions 

This is just a sample list, but with Df6 she might have a nice chance of picking who she wants to get hit by and the discard thing can have a synergy with HtK?

[admiralvorkraft]

I've tried it. It's fine, but I prefer Challenge the Crowd (it's cheaper if nothing else) because I can usually fish out a high card and a tome and based on the incoming attack chose one or the other to resolve.

My typical upgrade spread is Challenge the Crowd, Arcane Reservoir, Warding Runes - with a mage in the back holding Blood. But then, I usually run Ironsides into pools with two or more of Exhaust/Catch and Release/Detonate/Marked for Death/Set-up/etc. Schemes where pulling 2-3 models in and locking them down for a couple turns will earn me my points. If Ironsides spends her whole turn applying (say) Exhaust, and pulling models into place to drop schemes, that's a damn good turn in my book.

EDIT: It should go without saying, but I don't run Ironsides into pools with Neutralize the Leader because I don't like giving my opponent free points.

[trikk]

6 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

I've tried it. It's fine, but I prefer Challenge the Crowd (it's cheaper if nothing else) because I can usually fish out a high card and a tome and based on the incoming attack chose one or the other to resolve.

With Df5 I`m worried (theorycrafting, will play her soon) even with a high card I might not prevent getting hit.

[admiralvorkraft]

41 minutes ago, trikk said:

With Df5 I`m worried (theorycrafting, will play her soon) even with a high card I might not prevent getting hit.

If the goal is to keep Ironsides from dying, it's not going to happen. My goal is to keep her in the fight for 2, 2.5 turns while I score my points and if I can trigger Good Shot my opponent sometimes cheats to miss - more to deny me adrenaline than anything else but 2/3/4 for no ap is nice.

[Jordon]

I agree with admiralvorkraft, the extra  from challenge the crowd will statistically net you more success than the +1Df. It does mean that if the opponent has the right cards, they can generally guarantee a hit, but with three cards, you'll be consistently flipping a high number, meaning the opponent is burning cards. Also the increased likelihood of flipping a  is usually enough of a deterrent. 

At the end of the day, you really shouldn't be afraid to get Ironsides killed (unless neutralize the leader is up - in which case you probably shouldn't have brought Tony in the first place). She plays the support role quite well and thus can stay out of trouble until your ready to commit her. 

Generally I'll play her back until turn 3-4, catching things on fire, pulling key enemies out of place, and getting that sweet sweet HPM buff on my friendlies. Once I send her into the thick of it, it'll usually eat up so much of my opponents AP to put her down that I usually feel like it's well worth the trade. Hopefully you'll get a good adrenaline turn and take a few down with you, but I usually look at adrenaline as a "bonus" and don't ever really count on it as a valid strategy. 

[hippodruid]

Gonna third Challenge the Crowd over Imbued Protection.  Just having the option to select the low against a weaker attack is great, and someone with a starting value of 6 before the flip is still going to hit more often than miss even with the +1 Df.  You could combine the two, which will make her really hard to hit off the flip, although anyone who really wants to hit her can still cheat to do it, and it cuts into her available upgrades pretty steeply for less gain (unless you're worried about swarms of less-effective models, which is Toni's sweet spot, anyway).

[retnab]

Hey all, thought I'd share a fun Ironsides story I had a little while ago!  So I did a game vs 10T, it was Guard the Stash with Frame For Murder, Show of Force, Neutralyze The Leader, Convict Labour, and something else.  My opponent went Misaki with Frame (Yamaziko) and Neutralyze, I went Ironsides with Frame (Howard) and Show of Force.  Game ended up going 9-4 Arcanists mostly thanks to Howard being a massive nuisance and killing more than expected, but also with Ironsides face-tanking Misaki.  Misaki charged into Ironsides and I spent a good portion of my hand forcing  damage flips while spending my Soulstones to reduce damage on any moderates or severes and add  to my Df flips so I could guarantee Good Shot, My Turn on every hit (also burning some stones to not be Assassinated).  With some decent luck I forced Misaki to go down to about 25% health on her own turn while taking Ironsides down to about half as well, with Ironsides finishing off Misaki on my own turn.  Good Shot, My Turn is really really nice against aggressive models with defensive tricks!  

[DrEvilmonki]

Well I am completely new to Malifaux but have managed my first two games with Ironsides against a friends Lady Justice. I have the Ironsides crew plus Willie, he has Lady Justice + Witchling stalkers (so our choices are limited at this stage).

I lost the first, won the second. Really the two biggest take aways have been getting into the mindset that you don't need to kill all their models (or any of them sometimes, although we did have reckoning in the second game) and just keeping on top of all the buffing the crews have together. I found the 3 mages pretty helpful in buffing Ironsides with her warding runes and they can do some meaty damage from a distance with their furious casting and being able to both burn and slow opponents made them a nuisance. Frontline leadership worked well and mouse was able to sit in behind giving a bit of healing. The red Joker on damage with an uppercut against Lady Justice helped as well.

Willie is great.

I have gunsmiths and fire gamin coming net. Looks like I am building a theme around burning burning.

[Strype McClaine]

Don't overdo the gunsmiths.
1, maybe 2 in any burning arcanist crew is maybe perfect.
Cool thing, the Hard way grants even defensive  till the end of turn against burning targets. Also, message from the union is a better upgrade than one would think (ca ignores cover, also is flat damage) but its not an auto include.

Other notes: The Hard way does NOT grant 's on damage ( i learned that, the hard way...).

[osoi]

I still find gunsmiths underwhelming, I feel I get better use out of Johan for the same ss in an Ironsides crew and I can grab a Large Arachnid for less for what I want to do and 2 mages generally have me covered for ranged stuff

[Jordon]

I find the gunsmiths to be decent in other lists but amazing with Ironsides. Gunsmiths tend to be some of the biggest benefiters of Hand Picked Men due to their ability to be effective at both range and in melee.

The big thing about gunsmiths that I find invaluable for Ironsides is just how versatile they are. They are able to ignore armour (a huge problem for Ironsides) and both their experimental as well as explosive triggers become extremely potent when combined with Hand Picked Men. 

Combo all of that with some other synergies such as The hard way with Ironsides Message from the union, as well as their ability to be pushed around via Ironsides You looking at me spell (with a potential to gain fast out of it). I think they fit with her better than just about any other M&SU with a notable exception for maybe Johan. 

Willie and the Firestarter are also near auto includes as well, but there is only so much you can hire. 

[Douglas Scoundrels]

Brought Toni to bear for two out of three games today to get me my first tournament win. Funny thing is, I don't think she killed a single model. Got plenty of work out of her, though.

[Tayne]

First off, congrats on the win! Could you give us some more info on how you used her, Kaiser? What strats/schemes you used her for etc. I've got Toni waiting for my return to Arcanists (not my fault I got distracted by a Spoon).

[Douglas Scoundrels]

18 hours ago, Tayne said:

First off, congrats on the win! Could you give us some more info on how you used her, Kaiser? What strats/schemes you used her for etc. I've got Toni waiting for my return to Arcanists (not my fault I got distracted by a Spoon).

Okie dokie.

 

Round 1

Deployment: Corner Deployment

Strategy: Guard The Stash

Schemes: Convict Labor, Take Prisoner, Neutralize The Leader, Detonate The Charges, Setup

My crew was:

Ironsides (Challenge the Crowd, Iron Determination)

Mouse

The Captain (Imbued Energies, Patron's Blessing)

Willie

Oxfordian Mage (Blood Ward)

Oxfordian Mage (Nemesis Ward)

Johan (Imbued Energies)

Malifaux Raptor

I took Neutralize the Leader and Detonate the Charges

My opponent brought:

(I don't remember the upgrades)

Lady Justice

The Judge

Francisco Ortega

Death Marshall x2

Austringer x2

He took Detonate the charges and Set Up (Johan)

I picked my crew mainly for the Strategy and insane push potential to assist with Detonate (and denying my opponent Detonate and Set Up)

I was starting to type up basically a battle report, but I think that's probably a bit unnecessary. I'll put the highlights and if you want gory details you can message me.

Malifaux raptors always seem to work for me. This game it harassed an Austringer and would have killed him if it wasn't for the fact that he'd get to drop a scheme and score off of Detonate against the bird. The bird could have denied him the strategy on turn 2 as a single narrow lane was his only access to a stash marker, but the map was not set up fairly for the deployment and scheme, and he was already at a severe disadvantage with his deployment zone (I want a fair game).

Movement tricks won me the game. I didn't know he had Set Up, and was fully prepared to score full points for both schemes after he pineboxed Johan on turn 2. After Wille set him free, though, he burned Imbued Energies to move, remove two important scheme markers, and move again to tie up the Judge. After the judge had gone, The Captain pulled him back away from another scheme for additional point denial.

Mouse rope-lashed another Marshall off of a Stash marker and tied him up until the end of the game. I like mouse a lot more than I think most people do. While I didn't get off my favorite tactic with Johan, he was well worth the points.

The Captain is always crazy-versatile, either playing puppet master when his windbursts, or charging a silly distances to hit hard and tie up models.

Toni went toe-to-toe with Lady J. Both got their licks in, but Lady J eventually fled once I revealed Neutralize and I was kind of waiting for Toni to die for my mages to furious cast Justice to a paste (Toni got her down to a handful of wounds).

I have an undying love for mages.  I wish I could take three, but the 40mm base is too big most of the time (they're well-worth the 18 points, I think). Furious cast is their bread and butter and they couldn't care less about engagement since, if they hit a friendly, they'll just push him/her out of engagement with small damage. I've gotten to really liking their 0 as well, since they can attack ping each other for 1 pretty easily to get off Hand-Picked Men.

I ended up winning 6-4 in four rounds, I believe.

Round 2 (Doesn't apply. I took Mei Feng for variety.)

Round 3

Deployment: Close Deployment

Strategy: Extraction

Schemes: Convict Labor, Leave Your Mark, Catch and Release, Public Demonstration, Occupy Their Turf

I brought:

Ironsides (Arcane Reservoir, Warding Runes, Challenge the Crowd)

The Captain (Imbued Energies)

The Firestarter (Imbued Energies)

Willie

Oxfordian Mage (Blood Ward)

Oxfordian Mage (Nemesis Ward)

Envy

I took Catch and Release and Leave Your Mark

 

My opponent brought:

(again, don't remember the upgrades)

Ramos

Brass Arachnid

Joss

Johana

Electric Creation

Mech Rider

(approximately ALL of the spiders arachnids waiting in the wings)

He took Leave Your Mark, and Occupy Their Turf

Let me start by saying I wasn't expecting to win this. I saw the schemes and who I was up against and basically knew what he was going to take. The guy is VERY good at his Ramos spider arachnid factory and all of those schemes were easy to that kind of crew (He was featured on a popular podcast discussing Ramos, in fact). I didn't have the models for a crew with that kind of activation generation, so I took what I was familiar with, what could score the schemes, and what could hopefully stall the spider arachnid factory enough to deny him some points. I ended up winning 9-6 because last turn was called as we were nearing the end of the fourth. Otherwise it would have been either a 10-9 loss (likely) or 10-10 tie.

Highlights:

Firestarter scored Leave Your Mark all by himself. The map was mostly encircled by a raised walkway that mosly blocked movement underneath it. Firestarter skirted the outer edge, dropped schemes unapposed, and returned to the melee to help score Extraction in the fourth turn.

Willie held up the mech rider, denying it any sort of usefulness the entire game. My opponent ended up having to use extra spiders for scheming as my models were slowly being killed.

Envy is glorious, especially getting to shoot turn one. If I had gone first, I would have likely thrown a big wrench into my opponents plans as I was in position to destroy the electrical creation with severe damage and blast onto Joss and Ramos who were right next to it (also taking damage from the creation). Sadly, this didn't work and he got choice placement of scrap. However Envy took down Johana on turn two and blew up a pair of spiders arachnids that would have given my opponent full points for Occupy.

Everything was dying and I didn't care. Joss, Ramos, Mech Rider, and several spiders all had been tagged. All I was doing for a lot of the game was trying to keep stuff alive to still score extraction. Toni's teleportation helped with that, and I should emphasize that she's a jem for Catch and Release and Exhaust Their Forces. Since she's a sponge for punishment, you can keep handing out scheme conditions and still keep her around to do it again for multiple turns. Plus all those spiders arachnids means that, not only does she get all that adrenaline, but she can see over them too, thus allowing her to use her zero to teleport out of their gang pile to something that isn't tagged yet.

[Jordon]

Glad to see some success with Ironsides, however your braver than I with taking Ironsides in a scheme pool with neutralize the leader. I'm sure if you play her more from a support role, she may survive to the end of the game. I just find Toni often lends herself to getting killed in a good many of my games (which is fine).

I do also find I struggle in schemes that involve models moving across the board such as occupy their turf or leave your mark. Firestarter is a blessing in just about any scheme based mission, but I do find the M&SU are not as well equipped for scheme markers and instead focus on curb stomping enemy models. Spiders are decent scheme runners but I think wind gamin do it better, as do metal gamin in the right setups. I just dislike union miners in general, even though they can be great for very specific schemes.

[Douglas Scoundrels]

1 hour ago, Jordon said:

Glad to see some success with Ironsides, however your braver than I with taking Ironsides in a scheme pool with neutralize the leader. I'm sure if you play her more from a support role, she may survive to the end of the game. I just find Toni often lends herself to getting killed in a good many of my games (which is fine).

I do also find I struggle in schemes that involve models moving across the board such as occupy their turf or leave your mark. Firestarter is a blessing in just about any scheme based mission, but I do find the M&SU are not as well equipped for scheme markers and instead focus on curb stomping enemy models. Spiders are decent scheme runners but I think wind gamin do it better, as do metal gamin in the right setups. I just dislike union miners in general, even though they can be great for very specific schemes.

Eh. If it wasn't Guard the stash I might have considered not taking her, but that strategy, plus Toni's access to a ridiculous amount of pushes made me confident I could keep her from giving up the full three points. One point an acceptable loss and then my tactics would change to keep her alive.

Occupy their turf and Leave your mark is a lot easier now we have access to soulstone miners (which I don't have at the moment). I find I use The Captain and Willie for scheme running as well (plus Johan has Finish the Job). I want to test out Union Miners before I can give a good opinion, but I'm anxious to try out their False Claim with Large Arachnids, Envy, and Willie.

[Jordon]

For those who take Mouse regularly, how do you generally play him? I've tried to make him work time and time again, but it never ever seems to be a worthy investment so I stopped taking him entirely. 

Well I'm looking at him again and I'd like to give him yet another try, but I thought I'd ask here if there were any particular ways people have gotten success from him? My big issue is that he's very expensive for a insignificant peon. His rope lash is decent but he lacks any sort of melee. So if you drag something into combat with him, he then becomes useless. Sure he has a heal but so does the Malifaux child who is cheaper, can copy "You looking at me" to lure friendly models and for what it's worth, actually has a melee attack (I also don't hire the child because I don't see it bringing a whole lot of utility either, I just think I'd probably take it over mouse). 

Love the model, but hate the rules. Can someone enlighten me?