M2E Ironsides

[Douglas Scoundrels]

Message from the Union:

I don't think people expect Ironsides to have any ranged threat. This not only doles out hefty burning, but it's quite possible to surprise your opponent with. Obviously works well with Gunsmiths and Firestarter. If I understand Locomotion correctly, you could use it to quickly gas-up your rail golem if you have the right hand for multiple "Locomotion"s

Flaming Bottle only adds burning to enemy models.

So it does.

It would have been a very situational trick if it did work that way, anyways. It doesn't detract from the usefulness of the upgrade.

[Jordon]

Not to de-rail from ironsides very much, but does anyone like to run mouse? I've tried running him multiple times now and I just can't really seem to find his purpose. I found my biggest issue with him is that he's a 4ss insignificant model.

His rope toss is a good ability simply based on the fact that it's Sh5 with a built in drag and a low damage track, making him a good way to setup HPM on your own models. Outside of this, I just don't see his value. I don't think I've ever gotten anything decent from arrest, and he becomes all but useless once he's engaged. His heal is nice, but for 2 more stones, you can get a silent one.

Sometimes I'll either run the malifaux child for the extra "you lookin at me" but most of the time I'll wither run the EOP if I'm going mage heavy, or i'll simply not run a totem at all and use the savings for imbued energies/protection on the captain/johan/firestarter.

Has anyone else gotten any mileage from mouse?

 

[Douglas Scoundrels]

Not to de-rail from ironsides very much, but does anyone like to run mouse? I've tried running him multiple times now and I just can't really seem to find his purpose. I found my biggest issue with him is that he's a 4ss insignificant model.

His rope toss is a good ability simply based on the fact that it's Sh5 with a built in drag and a low damage track, making him a good way to setup HPM on your own models. Outside of this, I just don't see his value. I don't think I've ever gotten anything decent from arrest, and he becomes all but useless once he's engaged. His heal is nice, but for 2 more stones, you can get a silent one.

Sometimes I'll either run the malifaux child for the extra "you lookin at me" but most of the time I'll wither run the EOP if I'm going mage heavy, or i'll simply not run a totem at all and use the savings for imbued energies/protection on the captain/johan/firestarter.

Has anyone else gotten any mileage from mouse?

 

I think that rope lash of his shouldn't be sold short. It's probably not a coincidence that both Ironsides and The Captain have a charge of 8. You can send them out to pick off an outlier and then on your next activation have Mouse bring them back to where they were and then heal them for the damage he dealt. It's also nice to bring enemies in so that you can get off a two AP hit on them that turn (i.e. Ironsides or Joss). Don't forget to Accomplice so that your opponent can't react. It's also not impossible to get it off twice, bringing a heavy hitter and a back-line annoyance together that were 16 inches apart before the activation (utilizing Accomplice again). 

Using him like that usually means you have a much more dangerous friendly nearby, and if your opponent wastes AP taking out Mouse, they're looking at at least a round of taking relic hammer to the face. Plus he'll feed Toni or a henchman if they take Recharge Soulstone which I believe is a fairly common occurrence. 

I think he's worth the cost but is definitely not a MUST TAKE if you have other plans.

[Sordid Strumpet]

Anybody tried Burt Jebsen with Ironsides? his Crackerjack Timing ability seems like something that would help considerably counteract an opponent spreading out. Combine that with the captain's pushes and Ironsides' you looking at me, and you can get her right in there with a whole bunch of models.

Plus, it gives you a great target if you take Willie (and he's good anyway, to pre-damage your models essentially for free with dropped load).

[Douglas Scoundrels]

I guess the one good thing I can think of with the Metal Gamin errata is that since I won't be fielding them like I used to, it might be worth bringing one to tag along with Toni. Since I like to keep her in one spot by the end of turn 2, the 3" limitation on PoM is doable (for either her or others benefiting from Hand Picked Men).

[Spike0738]

I've recently played a few games with Ironsides... I can definitely see where people who think she's some amazing brawler would be right and wrong... She definitely needs to be in combat often, or else she will be picked apart by any good player with range IMO... I can see where some people want to keep her back, as a support character, until she's ready for a big play. However; you're never gaining enough adrenaline if you're not getting attacked or surrounded by guys. 

I spent the games playing defensively, removing and pulling scheme runners until I mustered up a solid amount of adrenaline to charge into a few guys. With 2-3 guys around her, she's fairly unstoppable, unless you are fighting 3 powerhouses. 

I'm not sure why people keep saying to use a Gunsmith with her. I can't keep a Gunsmith close enough to her to benefit from the auto-focus and I would much rather have the December Acolyte or something in the list to ensure more board control. The Captain, Johan, Mechanical Rider and Mouse are all pretty awesome SS spends, but it's impossible to fit them all. I would only bring 2 Oxfordian Mages, as I find that the 3rd never really does much but get in the way for me. 

Ironsides
The Captain (10)
Mechanical Rider (12)
Mouse (4)
December Acolyte (7) 
Oxfordian Mage (6)
Oxfordian Mage (6)

If you'd like to substitute the Mechanical Rider, I would bring Johan and a Gamin of sorts, or maybe even a 2nd Acolyte. Johan will offer condition removal and a Metal Gamin will be good blocker...etc. I really like the 7 defense Captain. I also like Ironsides to be protected fairly well with upgrades or 7SS for dmg reduction..etc. The list above is only 45ss. This gives me room to add upgrades, or even switch up models a bit for different schemes. If I have a kill heavy Scheme, or Reckoning, I will definitely use Johan, for the healing, over the Mechanical Rider and possibly bring that 3rd Oxfordian Mage for more control/dmg.

Regardless of what I do, she will die... She should die... She should be taking down key opponents and dying. The only way she has survived until end-game for me, is if I get a lucky damage reduction and I survive long enough to heal for all my adrenaline. Which I wouldn't necessarily advise, since she should be using that to kill stuff. 

Edited December 7, 2015 by Spike0738

[Jordon]

I find gunsmiths to be one of the best things to actually benefit from HPM. They have the same effectiveness in combat or at range and they have a similar charge to Ironsides, so when she commits to combat, they are often able to keep up. They also provide something Toni desperately lacks, and that is armour cracking. Pretty much all of their triggers really benefit from HPM, whether it's the increased likelihood of blasts, or the awesome damage track of experimental. Toss in a great defensive trigger and burning synergy I don't see why more people don't take more gunsmiths with Ironsides. 

I've run her quite a bit lately and the only model I actually regret running is mouse. I really tried making him work, but I just don't see his purpose. His heal is too difficult to pull off and he's all but useless once engaged. The only thing decent about him is that it takes a considerable effort to kill him thanks to his Df6, 5Wds and H2K. Overall I think the EOP is probably the better totem, at least when mages are involved.

[Spike0738]

I find gunsmiths to be one of the best things to actually benefit from HPM. They have the same effectiveness in combat or at range and they have a similar charge to Ironsides, so when she commits to combat, they are often able to keep up. They also provide something Toni desperately lacks, and that is armour cracking. Pretty much all of their triggers really benefit from HPM, whether it's the increased likelihood of blasts, or the awesome damage track of experimental. Toss in a great defensive trigger and burning synergy I don't see why more people don't take more gunsmiths with Ironsides. 

I've run her quite a bit lately and the only model I actually regret running is mouse. I really tried making him work, but I just don't see his purpose. His heal is too difficult to pull off and he's all but useless once engaged. The only thing decent about him is that it takes a considerable effort to kill him thanks to his Df6, 5Wds and H2K. Overall I think the EOP is probably the better totem, at least when mages are involved.

Having a model that can pull people (with built in trigger) is great for an Ironsides crew. Regardless of how hard it may be to get off that heal sometimes, it's a great addition. H2K, 5wds and an above average defense for a 4 cost peon is impressive.

I love the extra board control with her. I'll take an 8 inch pull H2K model for 4pts any day. I love the Gunsmiths, more so than most people on this board, but I just can't use him/her effectively with Ironsides. I've never really tried to charge into combat with a Gunsmith though, and that may be where we have had different experiences. I guess I just prefer to have the extra board control with Acolyte. 

I'll have to try em again. 

[Adran]

The Gunsmiths have the advantage that Ironside can Drag them towards her and not have them hit her with her "Lure", so for 1 AP and a tome, she gets to move up 2 models, which is you got lucky with the flip, or have a low ram in hand, have also gained fast. 

 

 

[Corey3977]

So my partner has decided to buy me a new master crew for Valentine's Day (Romantics till the end here) and I have settled on Ironsides as I already have Marcus and want to expand my Master pool.

My thing is, I was wondering what other models should I be looking to purchase to fill out her crew pool?

[bertmac]

Willie. Gunsmiths. Johan.

[Jordon]

3 hours ago, Corey3977 said:

So my partner has decided to buy me a new master crew for Valentine's Day (Romantics till the end here) and I have settled on Ironsides as I already have Marcus and want to expand my Master pool.

My thing is, I was wondering what other models should I be looking to purchase to fill out her crew pool?

The easiest way to fill out your crew would be to buy the Ramos crew box. Not only are Joss and Howard excellent models to run with Ironsides, but the are just awesome in basically any arcanists crew. Also the steam arachnid swarms are equally amazing running with Ironsides and add some great counter scheme tech that can really add versatility to her crew. 

Joss specifically brings a lot to the table in that he ignores armour/H2W and that is something I find Ironsides struggles with. Under HPM, Joss is truly horrifying especially when you look at getting positive damage flips on his pneumatic fist.

[Corey3977]

I have done a bit of reading about Gamin and Ironsides. Following the cuddle to Metal Gamin, are they still a viable option?
At this point my present list is Ironsides  box set and  Johan (along with some other stuff to pad out my Marcus crew). Unfortunately, I am unable to find any gunsmiths on the website I am buying from, along with Willie
I like the information about the M&SU pack - I would love a Langston and would jump on it if I intended to go with Ramos as my third Arcanist master (Kaeris is leading that charge), but I am approaching Malifaux with a way different mindset than I did Warhammer (apologies for bringing up the dark side!!), which is to say I am picking my crew based upon my love for their background/looks/etc

[blomkaal]

7 hours ago, Corey3977 said:

I have done a bit of reading about Gamin and Ironsides. Following the cuddle to Metal Gamin, are they still a viable option?
At this point my present list is Ironsides  box set and  Johan (along with some other stuff to pad out my Marcus crew). Unfortunately, I am unable to find any gunsmiths on the website I am buying from, along with Willie
I like the information about the M&SU pack - I would love a Langston and would jump on it if I intended to go with Ramos as my third Arcanist master (Kaeris is leading that charge), but I am approaching Malifaux with a way different mindset than I did Warhammer (apologies for bringing up the dark side!!), which is to say I am picking my crew based upon my love for their background/looks/etc

Gunsmiths will be released later this month (25th, I think), so that might be why you're having trouble finding them. I just picked up Ironsides as well, and just received my Johan to go with her yesterday. Awesome model, and he seems to have loads of synergy/theme with her as well, being M&SU. Other suggested purchaces seems solid as well, but be careful of not falling into the trap of bringing only M&SU models, and bunching up your crew (at least for the Strats and Schemes where that's a bad thing to do). Don't be afraid to bring something (preferrably self sufficient) that's not necessarily synergistic with her.

[Corey3977]

Won't lie - I can't wait to get my Arcane Emissary when it comes out

[Douglas Scoundrels]

So I was reading the February community contest and got to thinking. What are everyone's ideas on spicing of Toni's sculpt? There looks to be a good amount of room for improvement, as the uneducated would likely guess the Captain as the Troubleshooters crew box master (based on sculpt alone).

[Sybarite]

Where can I read about the contest?

[blomkaal]

40 minutes ago, Sybarite said:

Where can I read about the contest?

Right here

 

[Corey3977]

So I am about to have my first game ever with Toni. 

I was wondering if you seasoned pros have any guidance with regards to key things to remember to do. 

[Jordon]

33 minutes ago, Corey3977 said:

So I am about to have my first game ever with Toni. 

I was wondering if you seasoned pros have any guidance with regards to key things to remember to do. 

Probably one of the most important things to remember about her is to know where and when to commit her. She can throw a mean hook, but that doesn't mean she lives for melee. She'll crumple pretty quickly against other competent melee masters/models and she also has difficulties with armour. Find the key models and take them out, even if it puts Toni in a potentially dangerous spot. She'll take enough hits that it should seriously de-rail the opponents crew and that can be enough to win games. Stick to the strategy and don't be afraid to get her killed (although don't play too recklessly either). 

Another thing people tend to forget is that Toni makes a great support master despite her misleading abilities. I've played her a lot and I will stand by that I think Hand Picked Men is one of the best passive buffs in the game. It's absolutely worth building a crew around and try to get as much use from it as possible before fully committing Ironsides to melee. 

She can be difficult to play so try not to get discouraged if you don't get everything working right away. She's a blast to play so just have fun with it. 

[Corey3977]

As always, thank you for your keen insight! I look forward to getting her onto the table and trying something new after playing all my games with Marcus thus far

[Douglas Scoundrels]

Wow, it's been a while since anyone has said anything. I've played four games with Toni since.

I've decided that I play her best with a partner. Someone that can threaten more damage than she can. Sure she can bog down and challenge a lot of models, but I find she will eventually succumb to them by herself. I often end up taking Joss and/or Johan alongside her. While the Captain is a decent choice, he likes to be on the edges of the fight. He wants to see as many models as he can for push shenanigans and to make full use of the 11" threat range. Howard has a bit of the same problem in that he needs to keep moving and attacking. He's the biggest target on your team when you set him down and if you dawdle in Toni's bubble you're likely to see him shot to death.

Ran her once with a gun(icon) line. Three mages, two gunsmiths and two December Acolytes. It worked out really well. First and only time I tabled my opponent who brought an elite gremlin crew lead by Mah Tucket. For extra funsies I promised to only throw flaming bottles, and to never engage until I myself were engaged. Ended up burning Mancha Roja and finishing off Mah after she failed to kill Toni top of turn 2.

[admiralvorkraft]

I take Johanna by default in any Ironsides crew, and I like her a lot with Joss as well. I like Angelica better than the Captain since mostly I'm using him for friendly board control and she does the same thing for half the cost - granted, she doesn't carry a relic hammer but I find the Captain is rarely swinging his anyway. 

The Firestarter is another of my favorites. He cuts himself to qualify for HPM and his BUUURN! attack is great, mostly for the Never Enough trigger. If the enemy is clustered at all he can take the attack up to four times on positives to attack and damage and it gets pretty sick.

[Bengt]

2 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

The Firestarter is another of my favorites. He cuts himself to qualify for HPM and his BUUURN! attack is great, mostly for the Never Enough trigger. If the enemy is clustered at all he can take the attack up to four times on positives to attack and damage and it gets pretty sick.

How does that give him four attacks? Three with reckless, but Never Enough doesn't give extra attacks.

[admiralvorkraft]

Sorry, I thought imbued energies went without saying.