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This afternoon I ran Ironsides, Amina, and a Performer into some GG2018 testing. As I expected, the Performer spent the game blowing up scheme markers and forcing Wp checks. Fortunately for my opponent's plans, his crew was spread out enough where I didn't get to catch a lot of them in the blast.

Since it was into test schemes cannot really plan a whole lot on how things played out, but I will say: schemes that involve Toni just camping in the middle of the opposing crew are definitely amusing, but playing her into those schemes requires tempering your desire to unload with her Adrenaline-fueled beatdown party. My opponent was able to limit the number of models engaged with Toni to 2-3 (line of sight and abilities like Leap are very useful in this regard), but she still had no problem getting to double digit adrenaline. I had more problems spending it than I did collecting it.

I will say that I may not worry so much about Warding Runes and her, since her two new upgrades pair well with her Stand Up, Stand Tall upgrade ability, allowing her to build up a lot of adrenaline, then flush it to go from near dead to fully functional.

 

All that being said: watch out for Titania and anyone else that can turn off healing.

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Had my 2nd outing with Wave 5 Ironsides. Not as exciting as the first, but a number of bad plays on my part. She will need to be positioned carefully for her Challenge and HPM auras, as well as her lure effects, something which I did not use actively before. Full bat rep on my blog if you're interested.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just acquired a performer and am planning to try out new ironsides with some Shastar Vidiya guards seems like they will be great, ironsides taughts all in 8 and vidiya goes in and slaps while being protected by the challenge aura, and when they arent they still have the df cheat ability :)

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7 minutes ago, Mrbedlam said:

I want to like the guards but their SS price vs other models in the faction seems a bit hefty. I just can't justify fitting them in. 

It is pretty hard to justify their cost when for one less SS you can hire Johan and for 2-3 less SS you can get some Oxfordians.

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18 minutes ago, Jinn said:

It is pretty hard to justify their cost when for one less SS you can hire Johan and for 2-3 less SS you can get some Oxfordians.

i dont get the johan comparison, because for more more SS from Johan you get to draw card when DF cheating, you get focus 1 when activating, you get 1 higher DF and WP, 1 higher walk and that is just the front side of the card, the melee on Shastar also has non reducable damage trigger, slow trigger, :+fate flip for damage trigger. 

I think where Shastar shines is that you'll basically never need to cheat a card for any damage or df flips, because you flip so many extra cards with HPM and Focus that you'll be able to increase the survivability and damage output from other models by cheating there instead. 

I can however agree with you, 3 Oxfordians are better than 2 Shastar.

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5 hours ago, Thottbot said:

i dont get the johan comparison, because for more more SS from Johan you get to draw card when DF cheating, you get focus 1 when activating, you get 1 higher DF and WP, 1 higher walk and that is just the front side of the card, the melee on Shastar also has non reducable damage trigger, slow trigger, :+fate flip for damage trigger. 

I think where Shastar shines is that you'll basically never need to cheat a card for any damage or df flips, because you flip so many extra cards with HPM and Focus that you'll be able to increase the survivability and damage output from other models by cheating there instead. 

I can however agree with you, 3 Oxfordians are better than 2 Shastar.

Well Johan (who also benefits from HPM btw) gets :+fate to attack flips while near friendly M&SU models and :+fate:+fate to damage against constructs and Tyrants at a 3/4/6 damage spread and flurry. I think that, all up, is better than discarding for focused +1, especially given that Ironsides has no extra card draw and likely has no room for Arcane Reservoir, although the card draw on cheating defence could even that out for the Shastar. Additionally, Johan has a cleanse, which is half the reason you take him. Johan also has the (2)action Open Revolt to make all friendly M&SU models heal 1/2/3, which is situationally useful. Finally, he has finish the job which, with thought put into positioning, can easily score you a VP when he dies.

He isn't as defensive though, or quite as fast, I'll give you that.

Edit: Oh yeah, and for better or for worse Johan counts as a 6SS model for schemes where that may come up, such as Vendetta.

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If I turn to my usual opponents and ask them which model they're more afraid of between the Johan and the Shastar Vidiya Guard (SVG), SVG is the one that brings actual shudders. Both present problems for my opponents, but the additional pushes from the SVG and the host of triggers on his attacks he answers more questions for me. Sure, he's not packing a Relic Hammer, but then he's also not counting on my opponent fielding Constructs or Tyrants to maximize his potential and can threat a lot further to go after things important to the scenario.

Direct comparisons between the two ignore the fact that they do different jobs into different scenarios. Similarly, direct comparisons between SVG and Oxfordian Mages overlooks that you're hiring them for different purposes into different scenarios (even if only because of the opponent's known preferences).

There are some times where the Oxfordian Mages will be hands-down better for scenario. For instance, with GG18 Ours scenario caring about the printed soulstone cost of the model, 15 stones' worth of hiring power gives 18 stones' worth of scoring potential. All they have to do is bunker down and stay alive. They can potentially do more by using their attacks to push things out of scoring position as well. But if you need something to reach your opponent's deployment zone with AP to spare or in good enough health to survive until their next activation by Turn 2/3 to tear down a Symbol of Authority, these guys aren't doing it. Sure, you won't be hiring them for that piece of the scenario, you're likely to hire someone like The Firestarter, give TFS Warding Runes and Imbued Energies, and go reckless, regen 1, pitch IE and fly 20" up the board knowing you can spend Soulstones to stay alive until TFS' next activation to tear it down--but what's your backup plan for those three VP if The Firestarter gets merced before activating in Turn 2 (over-extending can lead to that)?

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I just had a truly majestic game with Ironsides!  It was GG18 beta so I'll be posting a vague batrep on it in that forum, but for the sake of the future Ryle hit Ironsides for some solid damage punching him back in the process.  Ironsides then went and punched him a whole bunch, also Rush Em'ing to engage more models for next turn, flipping the RJ on damage on the last attack, and my Steamfitter drew the RJ back!  Next turn I had Ironsides start her activation on turn 2 on 9(!) Adrenaline from engaging 4 models in a Hoffman deathball, one-shot the Attendant triggering into an uppercut which I cheated the RJ on damage for an 11 damage hit on an already somewhat wounded Ryle killing him as well.

She then died to a Peacekeeper's RJ damage flip on the next activation, but I think she earned her keep that day.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just tried Toni with her new upgrades vs the new punchy-dreamer and.. wow! What a blast!

She activated as my 1st model in turn 2 with 3 adrenaline, charged the just summoned Lord Chompy, left him on 1 wound and killed a half-wounded Teddy. Then engaged Chompy and 2 other models, Challenging nearly the whole enemy crew.

Very effective and very funny!

 

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I ran Toni into a Lilith crew at a GG18 Beta tournament a few weeks back. Fortunately not only was Public Execution in the pool, so was Make Them Suffer--because Toni killed everything that went near her, including upper-cutting Lilith off the table.

My opponent had made some mistakes early on, such as dividing his forces at deployment; terrain made it hard for his stuff to flex around and respond to my using a refused flank (I deployed second). This made it easier for me to inflict initial damage and get models into position for the Turn 2 "time to score on Strategy and Scheme with the same AP, all while locking down half the crew!"

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Note: I had both Wave 5 upgrades and the Iron Determination upgrade. This allowed me to build up a considerable amount of Adrenaline, and the one occasion that my opponent got Toni down to Hard To Kill, she activated next, used the ID upgrade's (0) and dumped all 13 Adrenaline that had built up as a result of being crowded and fighting. So while he got partial credit on Eliminate the Leadership, he found himself facing a fully refreshed and ready to rock-and-roll Ironsides. Veteran Fighter and Union President have really dialed up her ability to switch from a controller to a beater mid-game.

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@spooky_squirrel Thanks for the input. I'm intrigued by your decision of including the Iron Determination upgrade. If you include a Steamfitter in your crew together with the healing trigger in one of the new upgrades, wouldnt you be OK? You could instead consider Warding Runes for instance. What motivated your decision?

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41 minutes ago, Franchute said:

@spooky_squirrel Thanks for the input. I'm intrigued by your decision of including the Iron Determination upgrade. If you include a Steamfitter in your crew together with the healing trigger in one of the new upgrades, wouldnt you be OK? You could instead consider Warding Runes for instance. What motivated your decision?

Largely what @retnab mentioned: Being able to bounce back is incredibly strong, especially when you draw a Neverborn opponent with Eliminate the Leadership. The Steamfittter is one of the models I didn't pick up from GenCon, so I didn't field anything like it. I instead was going with some bonkers-level control with Amina and Toni pulling things around and messing with conditions and triggers to isolate things and set things up for the Ironsides wrecking ball. Amina even got me one of the VP for Make Them Suffer (turned dude into Peon, then shot him to death with HPM).

The healing trigger on the upgrade is nice, but it never came up due to Toni always being surrounded by enough stuff to spend stones on the Follow Up trigger to turn 1AP (Ml 7) into several more attacks (when you're camping a half dozen+ Adrenaline, that uppercut is Ml 8 even when fired as a trigger, which chains nicely into another straight punch with the Brass Knuckles). I had the choice to stop attacking and cash in on a heal (especially on the upper cut), but I get more work out of continuously attacking for 1 AP, then using her remaining AP to "You Lookin' At Me?" more stuff into her.

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I've been considering this highly control oriented list. 

Toni (Vet Fighter, Union Pres, Runes)

Amina (Runes)

3 Mages (Shields, Runes, Rehearsed)

2 December Acolytes

Union Steamfitter

 

The idea is that Toni is your main beater with mages playing movement and support. Amina shuts down their big beater and the Acolytes bleed cards from their hands to help Challenge do its job. 

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14 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

Toni (Vet Fighter, Union Pres, Runes)

Amina (Runes)

3 Mages (Shields, Runes, Rehearsed)

2 December Acolytes

Union Steamfitter

Too many :ranged for me, I think can be better -2 Acolytes + 1 Myranda + IE + Effigy

Acolytes are so good, but you need :melee and 4 card with IE can be nice for Mages, in the other hand Effigy can give a nice burning to :melee on Toni and always is good have condition removal and cheaper interact.

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3 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

I like Anna in certain pools. She stops models from pushing or placing away from Toni, which is pretty nice. She has a non randomizing Ca attack. She can summon when the cards are right.  

Shutting down enemy escape measures and being able to shoot into the cluster are huge. The only reason I wouldn't run Anna is she doesn't benefit much from HPM and has a merc tax... but that's not a steady position for me. If there's something along the lines of FFM in the pool, Anna's a high priority target for many types of crews.

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