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Played Ironsides last night with the 2 new upgrades + warding runes into Nicodem. 

Damn, they really shake things up! 

With an adrenaline +1 on activation, you can now basically catapult Ironsides into an enemy Crew turn 1 with her 0 place action at 21 inches away, without pushes from any other model. Quick setup for a turn 2 adrenaline rush if enemy models bunch up together. Also helps that you're not losing 1 adrenaline each turn, so by turn 2 you can already combo into a decent uppercut. 

The 0 challenge action means Ironsides will have to go first if you want to protect your models, so that makes the healing trigger for brass knuckles a little less useful if the opponent piles into Ironsides after her activation. It also competes for the trigger into uppercut. Still, it's a good heal with the 2/3/4 potential, especially at the end of a brass-uppercut-brass combo. 

Managed to chain a 4 hit combo with one AP, taking out a hurt Nicodem, a hurt Toshiro, and a full health Rogue Necromancy in one activation, while healing 6 from the brink of death. A very impressive outing. 

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12 hours ago, spikes said:

 

With an adrenaline +1 on activation, you can now basically catapult Ironsides into an enemy Crew turn 1 with her 0 place action at 21 inches away, without pushes from any other model.

Which 0 action is it? Rush'Em can only place within 6''. Is it part of the new upgrades?

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1 minute ago, Franchute said:

Which 0 action is it? Rush'Em can only place within 6''. Is it part of the new upgrades?

3 Walks for 15" and Rush 'Em for 6" (and possibly ~1"-2" depending on the target base size). The point was most likely that Ironsides can get the Adrenaline for Rush 'Em on her own now.

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It's worth noting that if you're bringing any (or all) Oxfordian Mages with Ironsides, they can still shove her halfway up the board before she even activates, especially if you're supporting them with other M&SU Academics to help their Resonance ability without putting them in an awkward location, like Shastar Vidiya Guards and Amina Naidu. Just make sure that you're still thinking about how to complete the scenario.

Her new upgrades make it so that she can exploit being shoved up to the front with significantly lower risk. If she took 6 damage from pushes getting up the field and is activating relatively late in the first turn, she can take advantage of the new healing effect on her attacks. There's actually a few combinations I'm curious to try, largely because the combination of negating Red Joker damage flips and healing back when doing damage (while having a Ml 7 attack!!) seems like a great way to have a controller make a nice brick in the middle of the opposing crew while your own crew works on scenario.

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That's a really good point!  I've always been leery of using the Ox Mages to push Ironsides up, but giving her Armor +1 with the Steamfitters and able to heal herself back up with Veteran Fighter makes that a much safer strat.  Think I'll give it a go next time I play :D 

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3 hours ago, spooky_squirrel said:

It's worth noting that if you're bringing any (or all) Oxfordian Mages with Ironsides, they can still shove her halfway up the board before she even activates, especially if you're supporting them with other M&SU Academics to help their Resonance ability without putting them in an awkward location, like Shastar Vidiya Guards and Amina Naidu. Just make sure that you're still thinking about how to complete the scenario.

Her new upgrades make it so that she can exploit being shoved up to the front with significantly lower risk. If she took 6 damage from pushes getting up the field and is activating relatively late in the first turn, she can take advantage of the new healing effect on her attacks. There's actually a few combinations I'm curious to try, largely because the combination of negating Red Joker damage flips and healing back when doing damage (while having a Ml 7 attack!!) seems like a great way to have a controller make a nice brick in the middle of the opposing crew while your own crew works on scenario.

This. I forgot about it as I keep thinking of activating my mages last. But this is a good play for Turn 1 at least, if you need to move her quickly up the board to establish control. 

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51 minutes ago, BFOmega said:

Something that came up in the last tournament I played and I'm not sure which way the ruling actually goes: Is the ox mage push any direction or directly away?

 

Any direction. It says "push target up to 2" for each [tome] in the final duel total."

Wyrd has been very good about stating directly towards/away when the push calls for that, so unless the push says towards or away, it's any direction. Interesting bit that is related: if an ability says "push into base contact" without saying directly, as long as you can complete a legal push that ends in base contact with the target, you can pick where you end up.

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1 hour ago, spooky_squirrel said:

Any direction. It says "push target up to 2" for each [tome] in the final duel total."

Cool, that's what I thought, but I played it the other way to be more conservative. Interestingly, my opponent made the exact opposite argument in that since it doesn't say "in any direction" it's only directly away. Woo, more wording to clear up in 2.5!

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11 hours ago, spooky_squirrel said:

Any direction. It says "push target up to 2" for each [tome] in the final duel total."

Wyrd has been very good about stating directly towards/away when the push calls for that, so unless the push says towards or away, it's any direction. Interesting bit that is related: if an ability says "push into base contact" without saying directly, as long as you can complete a legal push that ends in base contact with the target, you can pick where you end up.

I think push into base contact also means directly towards. There are many threads in the rules section that discusses this. I'll try to find one.

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14 hours ago, spikes said:

This. I forgot about it as I keep thinking of activating my mages last. But this is a good play for Turn 1 at least, if you need to move her quickly up the board to establish control. 

Activating last is more useful when there's things out there that will be trying to plink things to death, otherwise I would recommend focusing on getting them to where they need to be to get stuff done. Activation control against an elite crew is already powerful without you holding off on activating 4 of your models as long as possible (Magi and Toni) and surrendering board presence.

@Franchute it would be great if there's something concrete in stating that. At least on the (directly) towards and away we've got black-and-white text stating intent and execution.

@BFOmega your opponent might be coming from another game system where that is the case. That's one of the hurdles I had to overcome as I had been learning WM/H when Malifaux caught me, and a number of things including push mechanics were different.

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On 8/29/2017 at 6:54 PM, spikes said:

Played Ironsides last night with the 2 new upgrades + warding runes into Nicodem. 

Damn, they really shake things up! 

With an adrenaline +1 on activation, you can now basically catapult Ironsides into an enemy Crew turn 1 with her 0 place action at 21 inches away, without pushes from any other model. Quick setup for a turn 2 adrenaline rush if enemy models bunch up together. Also helps that you're not losing 1 adrenaline each turn, so by turn 2 you can already combo into a decent uppercut. 

The 0 challenge action means Ironsides will have to go first if you want to protect your models, so that makes the healing trigger for brass knuckles a little less useful if the opponent piles into Ironsides after her activation. It also competes for the trigger into uppercut. Still, it's a good heal with the 2/3/4 potential, especially at the end of a brass-uppercut-brass combo. 

Managed to chain a 4 hit combo with one AP, taking out a hurt Nicodem, a hurt Toshiro, and a full health Rogue Necromancy in one activation, while healing 6 from the brink of death. A very impressive outing. 

You must have had a ton of aderenaline in the tank to achieve that. How much adrenaline did you use to pull that off?

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5 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

You must have had a ton of aderenaline in the tank to achieve that. How much adrenaline did you use to pull that off?

I was thinking the same thing.  My guess is 6 adrenaline for the 4 hit combo from one AP.  It takes 2 Adrenaline for each trigger.  First brass doesn't require adrenaline, first uppercut costs 2, second brass costs 2, second uppercut costs 2.  It doesn't seem to difficult to get that much Adrenaline though.  Assuming one adrenaline pooled from the previous turn, Ironsides gets one automatically at the start of her activation from the new upgrade, and then at least 3 Adrenaline from who she was engaged with based on the battle rep, and if the Arcane Emissary was hired and within range, that's another adrenaline for a total of 6.  One of her new upgrades also lets Ironsides choose not to heal/lower the adrenaline condition, so it makes pooling adrenaline a lot easier.

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3 minutes ago, Thottbot said:

he said in the report he started turn 3 with 11 adrenaline q_q which is an insane amount 

New upgrade gives +1 at start of activation. Punch has trigger for +1. Toni gets +1 for every enemy within a certain range of her when she activates (no cap). She also gets +1 on Df trigger.

 

Add in the ability to choose whether or not to tick Adrenaline, 11 Adrenaline on Turn 3 isn't that bad if you're playing aggressively with her. Especially against a crew that usually tries to overwhelm with numbers.

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27 minutes ago, BFOmega said:

Something I noticed while reading this, did you take into account that Nico would have had to take the WP dual from challenge in order to give things fast? Because that's totally a thing.

Related:

Control-oriented Ironsides crews might want to consider having 5 stones available for a Performer if they weren't doing this already (I know I was).

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4 minutes ago, spooky_squirrel said:

Related:

Control-oriented Ironsides crews might want to consider having 5 stones available for a Performer if they weren't doing this already (I know I was).

For Siren's Call with paralyze trigger?  Are there other reasons beyond that?  Performers are solid 5 ss minions, but am I missing something specific?

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4 minutes ago, skoatz said:

For Siren's Call with paralyze trigger?  Are there other reasons beyond that?  Performers are solid 5 ss minions, but am I missing something specific?

Detonating scheme markers with Seduction to potentially put people on :-fate:-fate while having Challenge Aura and other effects to deal with. Your opponent will have reason to guarantee passing that TN 13 Wp duel just to avoid all of the stuff that Ironsides and Amina do.

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Ironsides and Amina have lure effects of their own, so the Siren's Call is a bluff/misdirection. The piece I'm looking at is the ability to put my opponent in a bad spot with a Don't Mind Me model that can place a scheme marker and blow it up in the middle of a cluster of enemy models. Anything that they want to do if they were within 3" of that marker hinges on their passing that duel.

Also: it doesn't have to target friendly scheme markers, so you can blow up scheme markers that were placed for things like Dig Their Graves and get added benefits.

 

Full disclosure: my first crew in Malifaux was Closing Time, on recommendation from my local Henchman based off of how I play other games that he and I have played. I've been a dirty player since before I entered the game. :mask

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7 hours ago, BFOmega said:

Something I noticed while reading this, did you take into account that Nico would have had to take the WP dual from challenge in order to give things fast? Because that's totally a thing.

Nope, I believe we forgot in the excitement. To be fair, I also realised I forgot to take a horror duel from Toshiro in Turn 2, when walking Ironside to engage Nico. 

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