shifting loyalties Shifting Loyalties storyline discussion - SPOILERS!

[Dr Tod]

I just finished reading book 3 and felt the urge to start a discussion on what happened there cause things most certainly did happen

-Lucius blowing up the Governor General leaving the Guild leaderless and being overrun with Neverborn

-The resulting explosion caused by the Governor's failed attempt to become a Tyrant would have killed every other character that could manifest (aka all the masters) BUT instead released the emissaries from the effigies, could it have been that the effigies drained the power to break free thus saving all the masters?

So that leaves the Guild's power mostly shattered except for a few pockets of survivors, the Tyrants are coming as eluded to by Leveticus and Lucius's loyalties to the neverborn in question (as he had no qualms in blowing up all the major neverborn leaders). Also why such an elaborate scheme in crippling the Guild? Was it Lucius wanted also to kill all the other major faction leaders as well?

 

What are your thoughts of the storyline?

[solkan]

Lucius didn't blow up the Governor General.  All Lucius did was give the Governor General everything he asked for, with the knowledge or expectation that it would end horribly. 

 

[tomjoad]

I think Lucius is certainly not any more loyal to Lilith and the neverborn than he was to the guild and the g-g. He IS a neverborn, but his loyalty is to himself and his own power. I remember a thread a few months ago on AWP asking who people thought the good guys, bad guys and 'main' character was so far in the storyline. Well, after reading Shifting Loyalties, I am more convinced than ever that Lucius is the bad guy.

[Masquer]

I think Lucius is certainly not any more loyal to Lilith and the neverborn than he was to the guild and the g-g. He IS a neverborn, but his loyalty is to himself and his own power. I remember a thread a few months ago on AWP asking who people thought the good guys, bad guys and 'main' character was so far in the storyline. Well, after reading Shifting Loyalties, I am more convinced than ever that Lucius is the bad guy.

I like that, but I think it's more complicated. Remember his butterfly monologue in Crossroads?

Edited September 26, 2015 by Masquer

[Clockwork Top Hat]

I think he is after power - whether he has to use humans, neverborn or anything else. He has no allegiances to anyone or anything other than himself.

[Clockwork_Fish]

Lucius tricked the Governor General into trying to harness the power of The Event, only to have it blow up in his face.  Zoraida tried to then channel that power into herself, only to have it be too much to handle, and it ended up being absorbed by the Effigies.  So unless Lucius betrayed his own for a bunch of evil dolls, I don't think he's a traitor.  He just really, really hates humans.  It's the Emissaries of Fate that were the bad guys here, so I guess 'fate' itself is the villain?

One thing in this book that puzzled me was Tara.  The description of the Scion of the Void seems to suggest she still serves Obliteration, but she's awfully friendly for a magical doomsday zombie.

[edonil]

The worst kind of evil doomsday prophecy is the kind that's funny, to butcher a punchline from Schlock Mercenary.

[Dr Tod]

I had a thought about Lucius, perhaps he serves a Tyrant and him blowing up the GG and nearly killing all the other masters was him clearing the way for his Tyrant friend. Also now we know that manifesting your avatar is basically turning tyrant for a time, making it permanent turns you into a Tyrant so every master has the potential to become the next batch of Tyrants. All the more reason Lucius would want them all dead if he already served a Tyrant, that or he is a bureaucratic version of the Joker and wants to watch the world burn.

[solkan]

Lucius serves the tyrant Flatley, lord of the dance? 

[Nical]

Lucius is always on Neverborn side. At least, He is never on human side. For Example, Lucius said "the rest of this world soon, will be Ours," in The Portrait(Guild short story in Crossroads). But I think Lucius has more plans for his own, so he will use guild as he have used(at least, for longer storyline).

Additionally, I remember Graves and Tannen say Lucius as "Matterson" in a short story, so I think it may mean they don't know Lucius's true name (or Lucius's true name is really 'Matterson').

     

 

[Masquer]

I have the thought that Lucius is using the Guild to destroy threats to the Neverborn.  While the Ortegas might seem like something Lucius wouldn't want to have around, they're out in the middle of nowhere, and keep to themselves unless news of a Neverborn attack/nest reaches them.  Let them play at gunfighting while the real work happens elsewhere.    

[Kadeton]

Lucius is always on Neverborn side. At least, He is never on human side. For Example, Lucius said "the rest of this world soon, will be Ours," in The Portrait(Guild short story in Crossroads). But I think Lucius has more plans for his own, so he will use guild as he have used(at least, for longer storyline).

Additionally, I remember Graves and Tannen say Lucius as "Matterson" in a short story, so I think it may mean they don't know Lucius's true name (or Lucius's true name is really 'Matterson').

I suspect you're thinking about my Iron Quill story from last year, which might have been included in one of the Chronicles. "Lucius Mattheson" is the name Lucius goes by in human society. I figured since Tannen and Graves use their adopted surnames to refer to themselves, they would tend to use Lucius' as well.

[StormLordXIII]

I think Lucius is certainly not any more loyal to Lilith and the neverborn than he was to the guild and the g-g. He IS a neverborn, but his loyalty is to himself and his own power. I remember a thread a few months ago on AWP asking who people thought the good guys, bad guys and 'main' character was so far in the storyline. Well, after reading Shifting Loyalties, I am more convinced than ever that Lucius is the bad guy.

I like that, but I think it's more complicated. Remember his butterfly monologue in Crossroads?

Glad you mentioned that! I agree that the butterfly monologue was pretty revealing; it seems pretty clear that Lucius is on some sort of mission to help the Neverborn regain their place in Malifaux dispassionately at the expense of human settlers, although I also don't think it's a stretch to assume that he is mostly self interested. The waltz scene at the end of Shifting Loyalties reflects this... it's like he's got an appetite for destruction, and works for himself alone. I would like to think that he'd put the fate of the Neverborn above his own security though, but only time will tell I guess!

Edited September 30, 2015 by StormLordXIII

[tomjoad]

I think Lucius is certainly not any more loyal to Lilith and the neverborn than he was to the guild and the g-g. He IS a neverborn, but his loyalty is to himself and his own power. I remember a thread a few months ago on AWP asking who people thought the good guys, bad guys and 'main' character was so far in the storyline. Well, after reading Shifting Loyalties, I am more convinced than ever that Lucius is the bad guy.

I like that, but I think it's more complicated. Remember his butterfly monologue in Crossroads?

Glad you mentioned that! I agree that the butterfly monologue was pretty revealing; it seems pretty clear that Lucius is on some sort of mission to help the Neverborn regain their place in Malifaux dispassionately at the expense of human settlers, although I also don't think it's a stretch to assume that he is mostly self interested. The waltz scene at the end of Shifting Loyalties reflects this... it's like he's got an appetite for destruction, and works for himself alone. I would like to think that he'd put the fate of the Neverborn above his own security though, but only time will tell I guess!

I picture Lucius as a bit like Littlefinger. He is on a side, but his real goals are hard to discern aside from just creating chaos and expecting to find a way to profit from it.