The off-topic closed?

[zFiend]

Sorry I realize that you already answered why it was closed but I don't quite understand it. Was it taking too much space? You could have just deleted the 4,500 pages I reckon and let us keep the place to talk our stuff out. Because well as you said "take part in the other topics" was actually the reason we were moved to the off-topic, we did just that (me and a few other unnamed ones) and it was thought to be disruptive. 

I do realize it's not always Malifaux related we talked there but pretty much all the forums I've been to have a place such as the off-topic thread because, well, people tend to start socializing more and more the longer we are here on the forums and find people we like and have a lot in common with the threads tend to get derailed hence the exile to the off-topic thread.

So I don't quite understand the moderation on these forums nowadays. Topics are denied of discussion even though there aren't any name calling or hostility or anything remotely close to that. Off-topic gets closed because it's too long. Long time members get banned. 

Just out to say I am quite saddened by the direction the forum seems to going. Also the chat isn't really an option as it doesn't work on all the mobile devices, it can't be held up as you get kicked out of it if you don't use it in a while and we had a small group going there on the playground of 5-10 different nationalities and to put that in the chat.. Well it doesn't quite work. 

So does this mean that we are/were being overtly active and such a thing is un-welcome behaviour? 

[solkan]

I think the largest failing of the Chat function is that it doesn't have the same capability to have a running conversation cover several hours that the Off Topic thread did.

I mean, I opened the chat page to see what was being discussed, and saw text from 1:57 PM there.  I closed the window, opened it again, and there was only one line of text there.  That doesn't let someone in the US make a joke, go to bed, have the European posters comment on it, and then have the original poster wake up and make a silly rejoinder to the comments that were posted while they were off-line. 

 

Edited September 23, 2015 by solkan

[edonil]

Agreed with this. I can't use the chat on my phone, and the OTT was basically a second home. I have many friendships in there which I would never have had otherwise, and that group can't really be recreated in the Chat, for many reasons. The OTT allowed people of different time zones, work schedules and life styles to connect. It's really a sad thing to see it gone. If the thread was too long, we can easily set a limit on post count and make new threads to keep things from being unwieldy.

[Shadowfane]

As someone who doesn't really have a beef in this discussion (I pop into the off-topic now and again if I see something interesting, but have never posted in it (as far as I can remember)..

Saying the Chat function can take the place of the off-topic thread is like saying that the car underneath the bridge that was burned, then left there by a group of joyriders can take the place of a Bugatti Veyron.  I mean, sure, technically you could use one in place of the other, but why would you?

 

You haven't moved the off-topic conversations.... you've just killed them.

[Victoria]

Much sad.  I have made many friendships in that thread.   

Love you guys!

[Myyrä]

You could always just create an IRC channel or something.

[Phototoxin]

Much sads :-(

[Astrella]

You could always just create an IRC channel or something.

That's not really the same as an ongoing thread though.

[Myyrä]

You could always just create an IRC channel or something.

That's not really the same as an ongoing thread though.

It doesn't have quotes or like button, but otherwise it's pretty similar if you don't disconnect from the server.

[edonil]

The disconnecting from the server is the problem. The OTT worked because we could come and go as needed and still keep in the conversation, which is important because of the time zone differences. The solution you're talking about is basically a chatroom, from all I've seen of it, which has the same problems as using Chat here on the forum.

[Myyrä]

Nobody runs IRC client on their own computer. Just have it run on a server somewhere.

[Pierzasty]

Pity it was closed. If there's no offtopic section, there's little chance of members getting to know one another through the forum, and the forum becomes a waystation with random people coming and going, instead of a community.

And locking the thread at 4498 pages instead of 4500 was just nasty.

[Dirial]

I'll just say this:

[Mako]

Seems really odd to have lost it. Even when I wasn't posting, I still came here just to read it.

The reason I made it to my first gencon, what got me started writing tutorials, birthplace of the iron quill, and source of many other things, all without any of the politics... 

 

Does anyone one know how to play the Last Post?

Edited September 24, 2015 by Mako

[edonil]

Does anyone one know how to play the Last Post?

 

anyway, yeah, the OTT is what got me back to writing again, got me to two Gencons, the TTB beta, founding the Iron Quill and I don't even know what else. Going to miss it. :/

[MasterDisaster]

It is a sad day for us. I really got to know a lot of members from the forums there. We could hash out any and all topics of discussion without disrupting other threads and given the international community involved we could all be a part of it. By the time I've done half a days work the Americans are only just getting out of bed. The Chat room just wont work for us considering the primary users of the old OTT were Europeans and Americans. Same times Wyrd... I don't think it was necessary to close down the OTT. Still... it is what it is. We will find other ways to Stooge it up, just you wait and see!

[zFiend]

We will find other ways to Stooge it up, just you wait and see!

"You can take away our thread, but you will never take away our stoogeness!" huh?  

[MasterDisaster]

We will find other ways to Stooge it up, just you wait and see!

"You can take away our thread, but you will never take away our stoogeness!" huh?  

You know it! We will not be stopped!

[Math Mathonwy]

I have to agree that closing the off topic thread is a bad move. I posted there extremely rarely but I still think that it was a very important part of the forum.

All in all I feel that there has been a change in moderation that seems to be stifling conversations and I don't understand the purpose. The general atmosphere of Wyrd forums is extremely positive - people are very friendly and flamey threads are extremely uncommon taking into account the size of the forum population.

I have always really admired the fact that people are allowed to voice their concerns (not only that, but Wyrd are both responsive and often act directly addressing things raised in feedback) and also to freely talk about other manufacturers' models and games and such. I think it shows how confident and proud Wyrd are of their product and I think that it is a wise decision. Wyrd really is one of the top dogs quality-wise and they aren't afraid of competition.

But it seems that lately (last year or so) the moderation has taken a turn for the harsher even though there seems to be no catalyst for such in the behaviour of the forumites. In fact, And not only harsher but somehow trying to stifle down the fun and games and try to encourage a more serious tone and posting style.

Maybe I'm just being a chicken little but this is how it comes across.

[zFiend]

All in all I feel that there has been a change in moderation that seems to be stifling conversations and I don't understand the purpose. The general atmosphere of Wyrd forums is extremely positive - people are very friendly and flamey threads are extremely uncommon taking into account the size of the forum population.

You have really nailed it here which was I was trying to say as well but I'm not a wordsmith such as yourself. I do agree though. I am still dumbstruck as to why the discussion for example on the Night Terror was "officially ended". I don't quite understand that the Soapbox thread was opened and lead to Ausplosions getting banned, for what seems like a total ban, I believe I managed to read the posts he made as they were deleted and then he was gone and none of them very that bad to my eyes that it deserved that. Not sure what Godlyness did but that seems like a rough deal too, guy has won all the major tournaments but not allowed on the forums to share his thoughts seems like a pretty big loss to me. 

Off-topic getting closed makes the least sense to me as I don't believe that was hurting anyone, you didn't have to go there and it was completely separate part of the forum. 

Also the mod hat posts haven't made much sense to me, they have been posted in threads that have no issues whatsoever. Which usually downright kills the discussion because people are afraid to post there after that. 

I think it shows how confident and proud Wyrd are of their product and I think that it is a wise decision. Wyrd really is one of the top dogs quality-wise and they aren't afraid of competition.

 

I don't quite agree with this anymore, I might have before agreed with this but seeing as to how many monday preview threads got closed, Nekima threads have gotten closed, the discussion on Night Terror thread was officially ended, the statements made in the Guilty as charged unboxing. A lot of the not overwhelmingly positive and topics that can be negative in tone in the form of feedback and critique have been pretty much shutdown. But no-one comes in when the super ridiculous "I'm gonna marry this render" etc comments starts pouring and say "okay enough of this feedback, we are closing this now" it's when people critique and voice their opinions in a negative way that gets the topics closed. And it's not in my recollection (I can be wrong here) always the fact that the forum users somehow get offended by these statements and start defending wyrd with name calling and subtle hints about the stupidity etc of the critiquing party. Sometimes they just get closed due to "enough of this" which to me doesn't seem quite fair. 

[MasterDisaster]

I have to agree that closing the off topic thread is a bad move. I posted there extremely rarely but I still think that it was a very important part of the forum.

All in all I feel that there has been a change in moderation that seems to be stifling conversations and I don't understand the purpose. The general atmosphere of Wyrd forums is extremely positive - people are very friendly and flamey threads are extremely uncommon taking into account the size of the forum population.

I have always really admired the fact that people are allowed to voice their concerns (not only that, but Wyrd are both responsive and often act directly addressing things raised in feedback) and also to freely talk about other manufacturers' models and games and such. I think it shows how confident and proud Wyrd are of their product and I think that it is a wise decision. Wyrd really is one of the top dogs quality-wise and they aren't afraid of competition.

But it seems that lately (last year or so) the moderation has taken a turn for the harsher even though there seems to be no catalyst for such in the behaviour of the forumites. In fact, And not only harsher but somehow trying to stifle down the fun and games and try to encourage a more serious tone and posting style.

Maybe I'm just being a chicken little but this is how it comes across.

All in all I feel that there has been a change in moderation that seems to be stifling conversations and I don't understand the purpose. The general atmosphere of Wyrd forums is extremely positive - people are very friendly and flamey threads are extremely uncommon taking into account the size of the forum population.

You have really nailed it here which was I was trying to say as well but I'm not a wordsmith such as yourself. I do agree though. I am still dumbstruck as to why the discussion for example on the Night Terror was "officially ended". I don't quite understand that the Soapbox thread was opened and lead to Ausplosions getting banned, for what seems like a total ban, I believe I managed to read the posts he made as they were deleted and then he was gone and none of them very that bad to my eyes that it deserved that. Not sure what Godlyness did but that seems like a rough deal too, guy has won all the major tournaments but not allowed on the forums to share his thoughts seems like a pretty big loss to me. 

Off-topic getting closed makes the least sense to me as I don't believe that was hurting anyone, you didn't have to go there and it was completely separate part of the forum. 

Also the mod hat posts haven't made much sense to me, they have been posted in threads that have no issues whatsoever. Which usually downright kills the discussion because people are afraid to post there after that. 

I think it shows how confident and proud Wyrd are of their product and I think that it is a wise decision. Wyrd really is one of the top dogs quality-wise and they aren't afraid of competition.

 

I don't quite agree with this anymore, I might have before agreed with this but seeing as to how many monday preview threads got closed, Nekima threads have gotten closed, the discussion on Night Terror thread was officially ended, the statements made in the Guilty as charged unboxing. A lot of the not overwhelmingly positive and topics that can be negative in tone in the form of feedback and critique have been pretty much shutdown. But no-one comes in when the super ridiculous "I'm gonna marry this render" etc comments starts pouring and say "okay enough of this feedback, we are closing this now" it's when people critique and voice their opinions in a negative way that gets the topics closed. And it's not in my recollection (I can be wrong here) always the fact that the forum users somehow get offended by these statements and start defending wyrd with name calling and subtle hints about the stupidity etc of the critiquing party. Sometimes they just get closed due to "enough of this" which to me doesn't seem quite fair. 

Well put sirs! I tip my fancy ass hat to you both. 

 

[jonahmaul]

You have really nailed it here which was I was trying to say as well but I'm not a wordsmith such as yourself. I do agree though. I am still dumbstruck as to why the discussion for example on the Night Terror was "officially ended". I don't quite understand that the Soapbox thread was opened and lead to Ausplosions getting banned, for what seems like a total ban, I believe I managed to read the posts he made as they were deleted and then he was gone and none of them very that bad to my eyes that it deserved that. Not sure what Godlyness did but that seems like a rough deal too, guy has won all the major tournaments but not allowed on the forums to share his thoughts seems like a pretty big loss to me.

I don't quite agree with this anymore, I might have before agreed with this but seeing as to how many monday preview threads got closed, Nekima threads have gotten closed, the discussion on Night Terror thread was officially ended, the statements made in the Guilty as charged unboxing. A lot of the not overwhelmingly positive and topics that can be negative in tone in the form of feedback and critique have been pretty much shutdown. But no-one comes in when the super ridiculous "I'm gonna marry this render" etc comments starts pouring and say "okay enough of this feedback, we are closing this now" it's when people critique and voice their opinions in a negative way that gets the topics closed. And it's not in my recollection (I can be wrong here) always the fact that the forum users somehow get offended by these statements and start defending wyrd with name calling and subtle hints about the stupidity etc of the critiquing party. Sometimes they just get closed due to "enough of this" which to me doesn't seem quite fair. 

What happened with the Night Terror thread (are you even allowed to tell me?!).  Was this on the Monday Preview?  I believe that the Godlyness got banned for his attitude in response to rules questions.  I have to say he was pretty obnoxious in the way he answered and I was glad to see him removed for that but a total ban certainly seems OTT (the irony is that I've always thought he is a guy I'd never get on with but after listening to him on S&S and seeing some of his AWP Facebook posts he actually seems ok so it's funny how a forum (particularly a rules forum) changes the way people come across).  Banning somebody for posts in the Soapbox Thread which was a Thread Wyrd themselves made for ranting seems very off though.

I don't follow too many threads so haven't seen that many locked (mainly I just check the faction forums and rules discussion) but locking them just because of negative opinions seems pretty petty to be honest.  Especially if it's the preview of the models.  Models are art and so like any art it's subjective.  The Guilty are a prime example as many people have said they really don't like them but I think they're fantastic.  I didn't realise the Nekima thread got locked but that model is pretty dumb as it's far too small for what it should represent.  I really wish Wyrd had owned up and admitted a mistake with the scale like they did with the Viks.  I do hope they take up the suggestions to make a Nightmare version which is a Puppet though just to troll us all!

[Myyrä]

I would like to complain about the moderation on these forums too, but I'm too afraid it might be construed as being rude, unhelpful, disruptive, and/or dismissive of people.

When being unhelpful is possibly bannable offense, it makes posting on these forums quite risky, if one of the moderators happens to have a bad day.

[mythicFOX]

This is not an official statement from the mod team, this is me giving you my personal view as an experienced mod.

Just to pick up on the comments re banning people;

A ban is always a last resort. Before resorting to a ban we will have gone through several lower tier sanctions and repeatedly discussing with the individual why their behaviour isn't acceptable and is causing a problem on the forum.  

Only after someone is given ample opportunity to mend their ways and end their problematic behaviour do we resort to a permanent ban. No one is permanently banned by a lone mod without discussion amongst the mod team, specifically to guard against one of us overreacting. You actually have to work fairly hard to get banned, it normally takes months of frequent poor behaviour.

As someone who's had to pull the trigger and enact a permanent ban on more than one user I can tell you it's painful for the mod, I feel dreadful after doing it, even when intellectually I know it's for the good of the community overall.

I'll also say I'm not aware of anyone ever being banned for criticising Wyrd or the mod team. I'm only aware of people being banned for being obnoxious to other forum users and/or actively disrupting the forum, event then it's taken repeated infractions over a prolonged length of time.

None of the above applies to spam-bots though, we shoot those on sight.

Edited September 24, 2015 by mythicFOX

[Myyrä]

The biggest problem with the moderation I have is that I really have no idea what is okay and what is not. The forum rules are written in a way that pretty much any post can be a bannable offense and when the moderators come across content that they deem inappropriate they delete it. Thus there is no way for a user to know where the line is drawn. That leads to a situation where moderator posting "Play nice" to a thread can be understood as "Stop posting or someone is going to get an official warning or a ban".

Now the only way to find out what is okay and what is not is to poke the bear until it smacks you. Even that isn't conclusive because some bears dislike poking more than others and all bears' poking tolerances vary daily.