"Combinations" and "Interactions" That You Could Swear Are Actually Exploits and Loopholes

[Paddywhack]

Paralyzed sucks, but there's nearly always an option to remove it in every faction (NB finally got their own with the Scion and a painful one with the Emissary now). Johan as a mercenary at the very least. Having an option like Paralyze on the table makes a big impact on playstyles. Do I cheat this high card to do extra damage, or do I opt to save it for the horror duel I'm about to make next activation to avoid paralyze? Without a debilitating option like Paralyze, the whole game would change.

I don't mind the paralyze from Horror as much as from other sources. I could still see a failed Horror test costing the model its activation, but I would not have any problem if Paralyze went the way of the dodo (and I say this knowing how good the Crooked Man's trigger is).

[SpectreEliteGaming]

The Molly Sentiment / Fetid - I misrepresented my view on her in my original post. The reason she was third and then I transitioned into "cheesey but fair" is because I think Molly is one of those cases. 

However, I also think its an goofy unintuitive bavkwards way to go about it. Give her an ability to straight up drop scheme markers - cool, no prob. Think about the situation as if you were in the game though - here you have a crazy undead jailbait chick who spawns a scary undead thing in your face... which does "nothing" and immediately dies... and then she "Step 5: PROFIT!" wins the game. Uh... okay?

Math - Oh, I'm still here. Just because I think its gamey BS doesn't mean I won't use it every chance I get!

[Kadeton]

Agreed with Papa-in-the-Box and Metal Gamin self-protecting, every part of that is daft.

The main thing that ticks me off is models doing stuff while Paralyzed - a model being Obeyed to move around or shoot, for example.

[EnternalVoid]

The companion one bothers me more on what it can do then its name.  The ability could be called Next Up, or GO GO.  Names of abilities and such don't really matter to me, because they are just labels given so we can state and identify them.  Also this one was brought up WAY before the FAQ ever touched it.  Came up a bit before Adepticon 2014.  Had a kind of ugly thread in the rules section.  The 'easy' fix at the time stated was to put a general change to Companion and Accomplish to say "Other Friendly".  Instead they decide to let it go in the FAQ as the rule did support it working that way.  Hopefully this means in future models they will be careful of anything that can produce more of this or made it worse.  The only good thing about the whole McCabe trick is it does Telegraph as three activations are generally involved, McCabe, the minions activation, then the reactivation.  Not that gives you a lot of chance of stopping it but there is that slim chance you can possible.

[zFiend]

Hm.. There are a few ones I feel are a bit over the top and seem a bit like loopholes and gaming the system. My opinions only.  

Metal Gamin being able to protect themselves.

Gunsmiths getting fast from friendly actions. 

Slop Haulers healing through walls.

Sidir being able to interrupt Deliver the Message.

Kirai being able to drop Ikiryo without any range limitation.

Francisco being able to El Mayor anyone. 

Colette not having the same attack once clause as Obey does. 

Colette being able to reactivate a model that is saccing itself anyway. 

Collodi being able to slow and steal an ap. 

Dreamer being able to summon Teddies. 

Just to name a few  

[Dogmantra]

Slop Haulers healing through walls.

Given that they can throw slop up to 8" away I'd assume they chuck it over the wall for their friends

[SpectreEliteGaming]

zFiend - A lot of your ideas are pretty legitimate - I can also tell that you inserted a few in there that actually sound more like you just have a grudge against those particular combos, hehe.

We all have our rage triggers, I guess.

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On a similar train of thought - I've been wondering more and more about "auto-takes" lately, as well. Of course, auto-takes don't have to be ones that are alway always taken no-matter-freaking-what but rather ones that are taken a disproportionately large amount of the time. So I'm talking like Lenny, Slop Hauler, Trixie, Frank (both regular and lil' versions, as it were), Austringers, Trappers, Diamonds and Rust (... er, A&D), blah blah blah...

Coming from an MtG background, I'm used to using only a fraction of the cards put out every year so I think I've been conditioned into not caring really - I'm not even sure I'd consider taking auto-takes cheesy - just competitive really.

Besides, the best thing about mini games is that I have no problem having models I'll never use sitting in my tray adding aesthetics to my crew as a whole - its great that you can actually buy something you care about because it looks awesome even if its shite, in game. I've only been thinking about it because sometimes I hear people talking about "Oh, its THAT list again  ."

And if you are one of those unfortunate people who has a boring master (about 50% of those reading this, I'd imagine) - well, that's why we invented proxy-ing.

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Also - holy fuuuuuuuuuu - I didn't even know about the Colette-Myranda interaction. I didn't even really get it at first until I looked into it somemore. That is amazing! You best believe I'll be abusing the hell out of that post-switch from outcasts next year.

Thanks! 

 

[Vidd]

 

On a similar train of thought - I've been wondering more and more about "auto-takes" lately, as well. Of course, auto-takes don't have to be ones that are alway always taken no-matter-freaking-what but rather ones that are taken a disproportionately large amount of the time. So I'm talking like Lenny, Slop Hauler, Trixie, Frank (both regular and lil' versions, as it were), Austringers, Trappers, Diamonds and Rust (... er, A&D), blah blah blah...

I think you'll find that won't be as much of a problem for Gremlins as more of the crewboxes are released (particularly when the Gencon boxes become released generally). Until very recently, one of the three subgroups in Book 1 wasn't available and only a few of the Book 2 models were available.

e.g. there's not that much at Lenny's price point until Old Major, Mancha Roja, McTavish become available, although perhaps the Whiskey Golem's being overlooked.

[santaclaws01]

Dreamer being able to summon Teddies. 

But... who doesn't love more Teddies...? They're not scary or anything anyways, they just want to swallow hug you ^violently.

[Sklertic]

Auto takes are unavoidable, and I agree with you, not a problem really. In my experience people play many different masters, so you rarely become frustrated from seeing the same models over and over again. Rotten Belles and Austringers might be the exception here.

[Omenbringer]

 

On a similar train of thought - I've been wondering more and more about "auto-takes" lately, as well. Of course, auto-takes don't have to be ones that are alway always taken no-matter-freaking-what but rather ones that are taken a disproportionately large amount of the time. So I'm talking like Lenny, Slop Hauler, Trixie, Frank (both regular and lil' versions, as it were), Austringers, Trappers, Diamonds and Rust (... er, A&D), blah blah blah...

I think you'll find that won't be as much of a problem for Gremlins as more of the crewboxes are released (particularly when the Gencon boxes become released generally). Until very recently, one of the three subgroups in Book 1 wasn't available and only a few of the Book 2 models were available.

e.g. there's not that much at Lenny's price point until Old Major, Mancha Roja, McTavish become available, although perhaps the Whiskey Golem's being overlooked.

With Gremlins, I doubt it is a problem of physically available models to choose from here. The cited models (Lenny, Slop Hauler, Trixie, and Francois) do an awful lot of work for the Gremlin Crews (as do the other named models for other factions), being much more universally viable, and often also a bargain for their cost, that is why they are considered by many do be auto includes.

The three Gremlin models you mentioned as alternatives, for example, are largely viable only in fairly specific crew builds centered around what they can offer. Som'er doesn't get nearly as much mileage out of Old Major as Ulix does, unless he skews very heavily toward pigs. Though he can run a pig heavy build, most of his shtick is centered around Gremlins, so you limit his over all effectiveness. Expanding this further, Ophelia, Mah Tucket, and the Brew Master, receive virtually no benefit from hiring Old Major. A Slop Hauler on the other hand is universally applicable to any Gremlin Master and can do a lot of work (well Healing really) to any crew they are included in.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Omenbringer

[SpectreEliteGaming]

Agreed with Papa-in-the-Box and Metal Gamin self-protecting, every part of that is daft.

The main thing that ticks me off is models doing stuff while Paralyzed - a model being Obeyed to move around or shoot, for example.

I must have missed this post the first time reading through the thread - I agree completely with all these points. Especially the paralyzed bit - that was one of the points I was originally going to mention but forgot - If a model is paralyzed it shouldn't be able to do a damn thing no matter what.

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I don't actually mind Papa-in-the-Box - or Anything-in-the-Box, for that matter. Death Marshals can be dealt with rather easily and I find it interesting that the pinebox can be used as an offensive trick - not just defensive or denial, or whatever.

I find Papa to be much more dangerous in the hands of an obey-heavy or movement heavy crew anyway - like Zoraida or JD. The fear of and necessary catering towards of Papa is almost as good as the suicide bomb end result.

[bertmac]

Ophelia's gun lets be honest seamus gets a 4/6/8 one shot per turn gun ophelia gets the same damage track with a built in positive to the attack that she can shoot three times either with a stone a cheated card or nearby lenny.

Metal gamins protecting themselves is likely due to the poor range of the effect its got nothing on el mayor!

Leaving an ss miner buried to prevent make them suffer autotriggering when there are no minions left on the table is quite a nasty surprise if your opponent wasnt concentrating when choosing schemes.

[Guest Severborn]

As much as I love her and I'm totally guilty of this Lilith being able to tangle shadows herself (to a friendly model) is a but much. She has an awesome (0) in illusionary forrest - meaning she can cast/charge what she wants without being seen. So it makes sense that if the opponent figure out a way of finally catching up with her she shouldn't be able to slip away that easy.

[RarerMonsters]

I feel like people aren't really respecting the premise here...

Saying that you think a rules interaction is "unintended" is one thing, but it's largely devolved into just saying clear interactions and single rules are overpowered. At which point I start feeling my inner Corvus Belli come out and want to say "Yeah, no it's not"

[tomjoad]

Maybe the problem isn't the posters, but the premise, then? Almost nothing in Malifaux is, or genuinely looks like, an unintended overpowered mistake, unless you're just looking for something to have a whinge about.