What do YOU want for a dual-faction master?

[Fog]

On topic:  I'd like to see something in Arcanists that ties together the various non union bits, and maybe have it cross faction with outcasts or neverborn.  Tie together Tina, Marcus and, I dunno, a plant wizard?  Who's BFFs with Lilith.  Could be interesting, and helps deal with the fact that Marcus and Tina feel a little out of place in their own home.

Off Topic: It infuriates me that Ten Thunders can't bring a rail golem because "They're super rare and it would come back and make Mei Feng look bad" but Leveticus and Hoffman just stroll around town with them.  "I am the only one with the secret knowledge to make these, and I give them to the arcanists as a sign of good faith."  "Then how come the junk dealer and the guild have more than we do?" 

[Durza]

Off Topic: It infuriates me that Ten Thunders can't bring a rail golem because "They're super rare and it would come back and make Mei Feng look bad" but Leveticus and Hoffman just stroll around town with them.  "I am the only one with the secret knowledge to make these, and I give them to the arcanists as a sign of good faith."  "Then how come the junk dealer and the guild have more than we do?" 

They aren't a secret arcanist thing though, they are giant robots that help build the rail lines, Hoffman has the authority to walk over and say he needs one, Levi i dunno. The Ten thunders can't take them because the only way they could get one would be off Mei, and she's suppossed to be undercover.

 

On topic, I'd love a gremlin/resser master,  because undead gremlins sounds hilarious. 

[admiralvorkraft]

Who knows why Levi gets most of the things he does? Forget scrounging in the scrap heap, he just calls up Joss or Howard Langston and they drop whatever they're doing to come hang with Leveticus...

[Jinxs]

I would like to see the gap between Guild and Arcanist, not that Hoffman doesn't count, but I like the idea of some sort of 'Tame' spell caster chained up and flanked by witch hunters who direct it as some sort of horrifying counter caster master. 

Upgrades wise it can be flavored depending on declared faction, guild being focused on anit casting while also dishing out protection and armor buffs while the Arcanist side would be more 'Untamed' or 'Unchained' and suddenly becomes a volley of magic dealing out waves of small damage spells while throwing move bonuses and damage flips to allies.

[Mister Feral]

Raethford for sure from the scenario in Book 2.

If his rules were rewritten / toned down for standard play, he'd make a great duel Arcanist / Outcast master.

Keep the loner rule to restrict crew to just Frozen Heart models and Mercs.

If played as an Arcanist, he could have a 2ss upgrade to allow summoning of Ice Gamin (although harder to do than it is now).

If he is taken as an Outcast, I would suggest a 1ss upgrade to allow up to 4 out-of-faction Frozen Heart models to be taken.

[Tawg]

I would like to see the gap between Guild and Arcanist, not that Hoffman doesn't count, but I like the idea of some sort of 'Tame' spell caster chained up and flanked by witch hunters who direct it as some sort of horrifying counter caster master. 

Upgrades wise it can be flavored depending on declared faction, guild being focused on anit casting while also dishing out protection and armor buffs while the Arcanist side would be more 'Untamed' or 'Unchained' and suddenly becomes a volley of magic dealing out waves of small damage spells while throwing move bonuses and damage flips to allies.

That almost describes Sonnia, lol.  Perhaps you should look into her.

 

Also, what's with this Anti-10T stuff?  What if all the dual masters I want have 10T in them? 

But really, Phinn made the best post, with all the combinations.  IMO, a lot of them might not work so well without a fairly compelling reason for them, and it would be a shame for any of them to fall into the trap of typical tropes to lessen their.. appeal. 

Honestly I am kind of surprised there was never a faction made that can not hire outside of their faction, or be hired by others, just as part of the basic rules.  Would have made sense for Neverborn, although I am not disagreeing with the game.  Just thought it may have been an interesting aspect to take, but it voids the whole Merc's being balanced by being available to everyone approach.

Personally I dislike the thought of smashing Gremlins into every random faction (Maybe I just dislike little green jerks), but other combinations could be cool.  As always theme // story trumps a specific combination, so as long as it is reasonable and cool it'd be better than just taking the to factions and marrying them (Lucius is a good reason to combine Neverborn & Guild, for example).  But really, a lot of ideas could easily fit within the boundaries of a single Faction, so often times it seems like there would be less reason to really cross that line, as much as I like the idea of dual-faction masters.  Hoffman for example could have easily had an Arcanist twist, but just the same works as only Guild.  I'm not entirely sure if the larger motivation in dual-faction masters is story or mechanics though.  If it is Mechanics (making a master that would like to hire from two pools, or utilize different upgrades), then it seems like it would be really hard to generate those strong ideas that really demand being in two factions.  But with story it's a bit easier to fluff into multiple Factions.

I'm torn between believing that the Guild is fractured or more totalitarian, to the ends of if they can really mix with the other Factions too much.  An Outcast // Guild organization of elite secret police that are "unofficial" could be cool.  Like.. Guild Black Ops kind of, that they won't admit belong to them.  But I don't know if that justifies them being Outcast, maybe if they were more like a secret cell of the Guild that went Rogue.. like.. Tom Cruize!  Mission Impossible style?  That could work, always doing the dirty work no matter the cost, bring the bad guys to justice and no one really wants to believe they are the good guys.

But I dunno beyond that.  I think the Arcanist are funny because despite being a single Faction, they seem like they have the most hyper-specific sub-factions, where their crews don't really think about taking other Arcanist models, like M&SU vs Beast vs Constructs vs Showgirls.  I mean some of them are decent enough to cross over (D. Acolytes for example, I hear they are simply great anywhere), but they tend to keep to themselves.

I almost would like to see a sub-faction somewhere that was like, classic knights.  Like straight up Middle Ages knights, but with an Arcane magic twist, I think that would fit best with the Arcanist.  That would be a pretty cool faction, IMO, could even see some Guild (Or maybe Outcast?) cross over if they are interesting in protecting humans first and foremost, so they work on their own, where ever humans are in danger or threatened.

Neverborn would be cool to see crossed with something new, but I feel like they are kind of the harder ones to story up.  Just due to the fact that any Horror style monstrous creatures could be pure Neverborn rather than being Ressers, and any spell slinging Neverborn don't need Arcanist, nor does Outcast X Neverborn really make terribly much Faction sense.  But again, it would come down to the specific story, because Guild X Neverborn makes very little sense, but Lucius does it well enough.

Anyhow, theory crafting is good and fun, so I am glad to have found this thread, I need to check out the ones posted where people were designing whole crews, looks like it could be cool to investigate.  The "Design your own card" part of the MtG forums was the only place I cared to go, so I am very interested in seeing what people do on this forum

[horvagab]

For a while I was thinking of a Guild/Outcast vigilante-type, Ram-Man perhaps

 

But then I realized that Jack Daw is already the vigilante that Malifaux deserves...

[Pyrflamme]

I'm a big TT dude, and while we pretty much have the dual faction Masters well and covered, I wouldn't mind seeing others, like Tawg says.

For Arcanists, I might see 10T taking advantage of the spellcasters, specifically illusion magic. We already have a Showgirl in the Oiran, and I'd like to see a very illusion magic focused 10T/Arcanist Master with Infiltration: Showgirls. Maybe also include a new 10T specific Showgirl.

For Guild, I'd actually like to see a Master focused on infiltrating the Witch Hunters. They kinda have a duplicitous/doublethink thing going on with the "use magic to defeat magic" thing, and the 10T might be interested in learning the arts of mage killing. Infiltration to 10T might need to be limited to anything that can't go blabbing about it though, or aren't necessarily true believers in the Guild - probably no Samael, but I could buy Stalkers and Handlers. Counterinfiltration might involve a new 10T creature from Asian mythology that feeds on magic, if one exists.

For Rezzers, hmm. It's a little difficult to think of something, but maybe an exceptionally infamous or powerful undead creature to strike a contrast to Yan Lo being alive? Or something that's sort of a benevolent guide figure that serves more of a crew support than Yan Lo - not that he doesn't to a certain extent. I got nothin'.

Neverborn is also a little difficult. Maybe a nightmare weaver of some sort? Maybe something related to sleep paralysis and mythological connections to malevolent spirits? Infiltration would obviously be Nightmares, although 10T would get a Baku to counterinfiltrate that could help the Master cure nightmares (in a generic sense, conditions and whatnot) as he wishes, and in an offensive role as mentioned by the Baku consuming the rest of the person's essence if they aren't sated by devouring the nightmares.

Outcasts I'm not sure either. I'm thinking some sort of trader wheeler/dealer Master who provides a contrast to the "in your face, blade in your gut" style of Misaki. Since a trader needs hired guards, I might suggest that his Infiltration lets him take a certain # Outcast Mercenaries into 10T without paying the merc tax (maybe 2?), and takes, ah, Wastrel/Tokarage/Guild Pathfinder? I can't think of any other plausible TT -> Outcast at the moment.

Gremlins is the hardest one. I think a spymaster Gremlin would be a humorous contrast, though. He infiltrates the ninja-types from 10T, and gives...something back to 10T. Gremlin spies. However the hell that works. Not very well, probably.

 

 

[Tokapondora]

I know lorewise they wouldn't get on too well, but I've always wanted a Neverborn/Resser master. Specifically, vampires, with life draining mechanics, enthrallment, maybe turning into bats n shit, who knows. Wouldn't get on too well with the other Neverborn due to the nature of its powers, so more of a loner. Somewhere in a castle. Somehow.

[JoeJones]

I'd like to see a Rezzer/Arcanist dual-faction master. Since those two factions are the most magically-inclined ones, you'd think (or I would, at least) that there would be some crossover. My initial thoughts are either a sorcerer who starts hearing voices or a construct builder who decides to use humans as parts.

[MR TORGUE]

31 minutes ago, JoeJones said:

I'd like to see a Rezzer/Arcanist dual-faction master. Since those two factions are the most magically-inclined ones, you'd think (or I would, at least) that there would be some crossover. My initial thoughts are either a sorcerer who starts hearing voices or a construct builder who decides to use humans as parts.

despite hoffman being the head of the amalgamation department you don't see that many knocking around so would love to see a master whom exploits such an area (other than leveticus of course) - good idea on the above Mechromancer!!

[MR TORGUE]

I reckon i'd like to see a viktoria'esk master but the difference being they are a 3 part master; maybe Neverborn/Arcanist. It could be the 3 'wyrd' sisters from Macbeth or the 3 sisters of fate. I like the idea of them passing around a buff (such as the singular eye they were said to share) or setting up a triangle zone that would be measured between them - you can give anything within this zone fate modifiers of either  or .
Maybe each one exhibits a different paradigm  as well ie. Tank, Scheme Runner, Glass Cannon.  I reckon they could do 2/3 completely different builds upon the choice of a limited upgrade specific to each of the three. 
Then to fit with master specific schemes you would declare the master dependant on the upgrade as it will give the named type as part of the upgrade wording. Further all three could then be henchmen maybe with the restriction similar to vik of blood. 

But yeah thats my idea...maybe i should be writing up a TTB campaign with this idea actually.. would make a great villain or npc group... 

 

[Bengt]

22 hours ago, tollstar_deluxe said:

I reckon i'd like to see a viktoria'esk master but the difference being they are a 3 part master; maybe Neverborn/Arcanist. It could be the 3 'wyrd' sisters from Macbeth or the 3 sisters of fate.
 

Lilith, Zoraida, and Pandora already fill that niche in the fluff though.

[Gnomezilla]

On 12/30/2015 at 7:21 AM, tollstar_deluxe said:

despite hoffman being the head of the amalgamation department you don't see that many knocking around so would love to see a master whom exploits such an area (other than leveticus of course) - good idea on the above Mechromancer!!

Now to me that says that, unlike the rest of the Guild's jolly little extermination campaigns, his is succeeding. For all that the Latigos put holes in things, the population of Neverborn never seems to decrease.

HowEVer.

What future is there in the Guild for a Ryle Hoffman, already so far gone from humanity that he's pure construct subtype, when he wakes up? Hm?

You'll get your mechromancer, I think. Someone who just cannot grasp why the use of the best available parts for the job gets so frowned upon. When technology hasn't surpassed nature, use nature. It's sensible. The original owners aren't using it any longer. Someone who gets along just swimmingly with McMourning. (With everyone, really. I'm imagining Captain Carrot levels of deliberate obliviousness to the dark side of humanity, here.)

[MR TORGUE]

On 01/01/2016 at 7:47 AM, Gnomezilla said:

You'll get your mechromancer, I think. Someone who just cannot grasp why the use of the best available parts for the job gets so frowned upon. When technology hasn't surpassed nature, use nature. It's sensible. The original owners aren't using it any longer. Someone who gets along just swimmingly with McMourning. (With everyone, really. I'm imagining Captain Carrot levels of deliberate obliviousness to the dark side of humanity, here.)

Maybe throw in the Beast/Construct type on a few models just to give marcus something to be brought into the arcanist fold a bit more. 

[Gnomezilla]

On 9/30/2015 at 3:51 PM, admiralvorkraft said:

Who knows why Levi gets most of the things he does? Forget scrounging in the scrap heap, he just calls up Joss or Howard Langston and they drop whatever they're doing to come hang with Leveticus...

I believe the word you're looking for is "blackmail".

On 12/30/2015 at 6:47 AM, JoeJones said:

I'd like to see a Rezzer/Arcanist dual-faction master. Since those two factions are the most magically-inclined ones, you'd think (or I would, at least) that there would be some crossover. My initial thoughts are either a sorcerer who starts hearing voices or a construct builder who decides to use humans as parts.

See above...

8 hours ago, tollstar_deluxe said:

Maybe throw in the Beast/Construct type on a few models just to give marcus something to be brought into the arcanist fold a bit more. 

I did dislike that the resultant critters were not at all Living (in fact I wonder whether 'cannot hire Living' can be a valid restriction--imagine swapping your access to Joss and Howard Langston for Lazarus, Coryphee, and Rogue Necromancy) but could not be pure Construct. Your solution is excellent and that it also gives something back to the somewhat neglected Marcus is a bonus.

[Clockwork Top Hat]

Outcast/Neverborn master - A mimic who grew up amongst Malifaux's orphans and seems almost human.

[Boomstick]

Since Arcanists have no non-TT dual-faction master, I'd like to see one.

On that point, does anyone know why Wong isn't dual-faction Arcanists/Gremlins?

[JoeJones]

5 hours ago, Boomstick24 said:

Since Arcanists have no non-TT dual-faction master, I'd like to see one.

On that point, does anyone know why Wong isn't dual-faction Arcanists/Gremlins?

The same reason that Hoffmann isn't dual-faction Arcanist/Guild, I'd say.

[Bengt]

9 hours ago, Boomstick24 said:

Since Arcanists have no non-TT dual-faction master, I'd like to see one.

On that point, does anyone know why Wong isn't dual-faction Arcanists/Gremlins?

Because Wong doesn't fit with the Arcanist theme. Arcanists isn't just any magic user in Malifaux (half the masters would be dual Arcanist then), it's Ramos' employees and allies.

I think Hoffman makes a much stronger case since he has an established relationship with Ramos. I suspect he was considered during the planing of M2E but reject because Arcanists would be full with the additions of Kaeris and Ironsides and/or it would perhaps have given Guild a little too many dual faction masters (as loads of dual faction masters is TT's "thing").