Line of sight and Auras.

[johnd37]

Is line of sight required for auras, and bursts?

 

In my 101 rules book, the description of Aura, makes no reference to line of sight,

then gives an example aura with no reference to it either, but then says this example would need it.

 

Looking on the web, I found if something says 'target' an item, like a marker, you would need line of sight to it, but if it just has to be in range then you don't.

 

Is the example wrong, or is the default, you need line of sight unless something says you don't?

 

It cam up in a game, when I trying to use 'Powered by flame' across a small hut, that blocked LOS to the damaged enemy.

 

[Rob Lo]

Callout box, pg 50, big rulebook. A model cannot be affected by an aura or pulse that emanates from a location out of LoS.

 

So yeah, they have to have LoS to each other, following all the normal rules for LoS and intervening terrain and blocking models.

 

Also, models always having LoS to themselves is.. somewhere. I think in the FAQ?

[katadder]

an aura from a ht2 model can effect someone on top of a ht50 building as long as the person on the building can see the person on the ground, so yes someone on a ht 3 building will be effected by auras off a ht 2 model they can see

 

height has no effect on being effected by auras (unless providing cover etc as people already stated)

[santaclaws01]

"Height(Ht): The model's relative height in the game. Ht is used when drawing Line of Sight (see page 40)" (big rule book, pg 21)

It is clearly stated what Ht is used for, and that is LoS. Any other use of Ht is not supported by the rules.

EDIT: I'll also add that Ht has interactions with engagement range and elevation which are specifically stated. If Auras and Pulses had any interaction with Ht other than for LoS it would be stated.

Edited August 9, 2015 by santaclaws01

[Tuttleboy]

Also, auras and pulses do not extend down from a model's base. Only up.

[jonahmaul]

And only up to the models Ht as well.  So a Ht1 model with a Ht2 model directly in front of it could not effect a Ht3 model with an Aura even though they have LoS to it as the Ht2 model blocks the path to it.  Also, Blasts can hit models that are out of LoS from the model causing the Blast but not out of LoS of the original target.

[Adran]

[jonahmaul]

That thread was bloated and confusing and directly contradicts what is in the rulebook:

 

'An Aura has the same Ht as the model it comes from, unless specified otherwise' (Big rulebook Page 50)

[Dirial]

That thread was bloated and confusing and directly contradicts what is in the rulebook:

 

'An Aura has the same Ht as the model it comes from, unless specified otherwise' (Big rulebook Page 50)

The issue is that while that is in the rulebook, nowhere does it say why the Ht is relevant. A model just needs range and LoS to be affected.

[jonahmaul]

Why bother saying they have a Ht at all then?  If the Aura itself has a Ht then surely it needs to follow the usual LoS rules too?

[Adran]

Yes I agree its a bit confusing. But it does directly relate here.

 

The Ht 3 model in your example can see the originating point of the aura and is in the range of the aura, so will be effected.

 

the Ht of the Aura matters if it provides cover, or blocks line of sight. But otehrwise doesn't really matter

[Mach_5]

Ht also matters if the model potentially being affected is on elevated terrain. A model within the aura range of a Ht2 model but standing on the upper floor of a building 3" high would not be affected.

[Tuttleboy]

Ht is a huge deal, especially when you've got a Ht 1 model that needs to get his aura on another model that's 2" up on a bridge.  Dreamer pretty much MUST summon his Nightmares on the same level as him unless you don't care about hitting that summoned model with 1 Wd in his Pleasant Dreams aura.

[DocSchlock]

 

Ht is a huge deal, especially when you've got a Ht 1 model that needs to get his aura on another model that's 2" up on a bridge.  Dreamer pretty much MUST summon his Nightmares on the same level as him unless you don't care about hitting that summoned model with 1 Wd in his Pleasant Dreams aura.

As pointed out by Dirial and Adran, this is not true. Per the rules as written and Justin's (admittedly unofficial) clarification, Auras do not require a model to be within the height, only within top-down range and LOS.

Aura's Ht is only used when the Aura itself affects LOS or provides Cover. Its effects will occur on anyone above or below that meet the two required criteria.

[Dirial]

Why bother saying they have a Ht at all then?  If the Aura itself has a Ht then surely it needs to follow the usual LoS rules too?

  

I have no idea, but it's no where in the rules that it does anything more than range and LoS.

Ht also matters if the model potentially being affected is on elevated terrain. A model within the aura range of a Ht2 model but standing on the upper floor of a building 3" high would not be affected.

It would if it has LoS.

  

Ht is a huge deal, especially when you've got a Ht 1 model that needs to get his aura on another model that's 2" up on a bridge.  Dreamer pretty much MUST summon his Nightmares on the same level as him unless you don't care about hitting that summoned model with 1 Wd in his Pleasant Dreams aura.

Not true. The upward model needs LoS to Dreamer (so probably a vantage point) and must be in range of the Aura which is measured top-down. Nothing more, per the Aura rules.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I have no rulebook with me. Note that stating that the Aura has a Ht is no counter argumentvwhen it is never referenced.

[Math Mathonwy]

Auras should be thought of from a top-down view unless the Aura affects LOS or provides cover.

Edit: ...or what the two fine gentlemen above me said. I was more succint but they were more thorough

[AoS]

So just to clarification... Can an aura generated by a Ht 2 model affect a model on a Ht 3 building? (They have LoS and are in Rg)

[AoS]

Ok thanks, just as I thought.

[Tuttleboy]

Page 58 of the rule book 3rd paragraph under Auras says, "An aura has the same Ht as the model it comes from, unless specified otherwise."  I've always taken that to mean that to be affected by and aura it needs to be with in the height and LoS of the model with the aura. LoS is required by the last sentence of that section. I'd be super happy to be wrong simply because it makes it much better for Dreamer's healing aura.

[Rob Lo]

Yeah, read the stuff from Justin in the link Adran posted above. 12 foot tall tower, one model on top, one model at the bottom, within LoS of each other and otherwise within a top-down measured distance of each other that is within the aura range, it is affected. I believe that is the case no matter which model is projecting the aura, the one up top or the one down below. Enjoy your filthy Dreamer healing!

[AoS]

We have to think un auras and pulses as cylinders around the model which generated it.

[Mach_5]

I stand corrected. Hopefully that gets into the FAQ and becomes Official.

[joediamond]

Auras and pulses are a lot simpler than people make them.  There are no Ht considerations, no cylinders.  You measure range and check LOS between the source model and the affected model, just like anything else that targets a model.  If those two conditions are satisfied, you affect the model with the aura/pulse.

[Mach_5]

Except the rules specify that an aura has a height. There are multiple ways to interpret why that is since the rules don't say how and when to apply that height (and more importantly to this discussion, when to disregard it.

[joediamond]

Except the rules specify that an aura has a height. There are multiple ways to interpret why that is since the rules don't say how and when to apply that height (and more importantly to this discussion, when to disregard it.

 

No, Auras do not have a height, as in a physical dimension in inches.  They have an Ht stat, which is a dimensionless number that is used for certain rules (mainly LOS and elevation).

 

I think it's confusing for a lot of people because a lot of us are here from Malifaux 1.5 (myself included), where auras and pulses were indeed cylindrical 3D effects and had a lengthy multipage FAQ explaining how they worked in 3D space.      But in M2E, those rules no longer apply.  Top down is the name of the game.  Horizontal distance and LOS is all that matters.

 

"Height(Ht): The model's relative height in the game. Ht is used when drawing Line of Sight (see page 40)" (big rule book, pg 21)

It is clearly stated what Ht is used for, and that is LoS. Any other use of Ht is not supported by the rules.

 

[solkan]

I think the other factor is the "But we might some day want to have a Ht X aura generated by a Ht Z model" capability, putting it in print, and then possibly deciding "No, let's not ever do that, it's confusing" in the secret developer meetings.