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Rurouni Benshin

Shenlong's "Monk of Many Styles" Clarification

Question

Hi all,

 

This came up in a Battle Report that I did on Shenlong a couple days ago, and I don't seem to have a clear answer for it, as a couple of people have approached me with different answers on that thread.

 

Shenlong's "Monk of Many Styles" says: "Choose a Limited upgrade with the Restriction of Shenlong.  If another friendly model has the chosen Upgrade attached, discard it.  This model may discard a Limited Upgrade it has attached to attach the chosen Upgrade."

 

Now consider the following situation in a game:  Shenlong and Sensei Yu are both being played.  Neither of them have a Limited Upgrade with the Shenlong restriction currently.  Sensei Yu, however, does have "Promising Disciple".

 

I am understanding this to mean that all Shenlong has to do in this situation is name any of his upgrades, and attach it to his model for free, once he is able to do a (0) action, whether it be at the beginning of the turn, as stated on his "Powerful Chi" ability, or just during his activation.

 

My logic and thought process as follows, going sentence by sentence:

 

Sentence 1: "Choose a limited upgrade with the restriction of Shenlong". 

Logic: Ok, simple enough. I choose "Wandering River Style".

 

Sentience 2: "If another friendly model has the chosen upgrade attached, discard it."

Logic: Sure, no problem. If it were already attached to a model, I would have to discard it. However, being that it's not, I don't have to because the first word in the sentence says "If", which would imply that if it doesn't have the upgrade attached, I wouldn't have to discard it.

 

Sentence 3: "This model may discard a Limited upgrade it has attached to attach the chosen upgrade"

Logic: Ok, sure.  Except I don't have a Limited upgrade attached already, so therefore no need to discard one.  Emphasis being on the word "may".

 

Is this correct, or am I mistaken in this train of thought?  Please help!  Thank you! :D

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Adran   

 

Maybe this needs to enter the FAQ because people seem to not read May do A to do B, meaning that A must happen for B to happen.

 

It doesn't say you may attach the named upgrade, it says you MAY discard a limited upgrade TO attach the named upgrade.

 

(PS I'm not stalking you, I just knew there was already this rules thread recently)

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No worries, Adran. I feel it's just as important that everyone have a clear understanding of the rules as well.  Thanks again.

 

To comment a bit further though on the last sentence again:

 


It doesn't say you may attach the named upgrade, it says you MAY discard a limited upgrade TO attach the named upgrade.

 

While it does say I "may" discard a limited upgrade, I don't take that to mean I "have to" discard a limited upgrade.  Perhaps this is where the confusion is coming from.  My interpretation of that last sentence is that the card prohibits players from putting multiple Limited upgrades on Shenlong.

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Da Git   

The key word here is the TO

 

Sentence 3: "This model may discard a Limited upgrade it has attached to attach the chosen upgrade"

 

Because of the word TO, you have to discard the upgrade first, then you can attach the new one.  No discard => no attaching for you! (come back, one year!).

The MAY applies to the whole sentence.  It is actually kinda bad wording as the MAY could be removed entirely (this has come up a few times before, and I can see how you're reading it that way).

 

Hope this is clear!

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Adran   

Examples of other usage of the same language

 

From the rule book

"A model may take a (1) interact action to place a scheme marker in base contact with itself. "

 

You don't get to place the scheme marker if you don't take the interact action. 

 

I hope that is clear. The Language on Many styles is exactly the same.

You don'y have to discard a limited upgrade, but you don't get to attach the named upgrade unless you do discard 1

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Examples of other usage of the same language

 

From the rule book

"A model may take a (1) interact action to place a scheme marker in base contact with itself. "

 

You don't get to place the scheme marker if you don't take the interact action. 

 

I hope that is clear. The Language on Many styles is exactly the same.

You don'y have to discard a limited upgrade, but you don't get to attach the named upgrade unless you do discard 1

 

This sounds the most appropriate. 

 

And not just because I am your primary opponent, Benshin. 

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Fair points all around. Given the explanation on interactions, and Da Git's (brilliant name, btw :P ) explanation (hilarious, now that I've said that out loud), I'm willing to concede that at least one upgrade must be purchased between Shenlong and Sensei in order for the ability to work.

Thanks again! And if others still have more to add, or other insights as to how the ability should work, please share.

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Da Git   

Fair points all around. Given the explanation on interactions, and Da Git's (brilliant name, btw :P ) explanation (hilarious, now that I've said that out loud), I'm willing to concede that at least one upgrade must be purchased between Shenlong and Sensei in order for the ability to work.

Thanks again! And if others still have more to add, or other insights as to how the ability should work, please share.

 

Thank you sir!

 

Also, never remove use Yu to remove Shenlong's Upgrade, once you do, he can never get one back :(

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So what I am getting from this is that Shenlong needs to purchase a Limited upgrade during crew hiring in order to ever switch styles. Nobody else has to though. Correct?

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Da Git   

Yes. 

 

Although Sensei Yu must buy the Promising Disciple Upgrade. 

Then he can gain his first Upgrade when Shenlong discards one. 

After that, as long as he has an Limited Upgrade Attached, he can use Disciple to use Monk of Many Styles. If he doesn't have a Limited Upgrade attached, he can't use Monk of Many Styles for the same reasons as Shenlong can't.

 

Confused yet!?

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Thank you sir!

 

Also, never remove use Yu to remove Shenlong's Upgrade, once you do, he can never get one back :(

Oh, just went back to the original battle report and saw all the posts after mine.

 

The above quote is what I was refering to, turn 2 Sensei Yu uses Monk of Many Styles to pick up the Lowe River upgrade currently on Shenlong.

This would have left Shenlong without an upgrade and therefore unable to attach any for the rest of the game.

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