Tactical Discussion: Ranged Masters

[EntrepeNinja]

Long Post Warning.

 

I've been noticing something kind of specific lately. When a strat and scheme flip comes, and regardless of my declared faction, I will nine times out of ten reach for a melee master or support master to do the things I need to do in the game. I've got a basic concept of why that is, I think:

 

First the master generalizations (remember... generalizations are purposefully broad)

 

Melee style masters; Likes being engaged, either because they're dangerous there, or they're just hard to take down.

                                  (examples- Lady Justice, Victories, Ironsides, McMourning)

Support Style Masters; Is a model force multiplier, or is able to affect the battlefield by supporting it's crew, and less direct intervention

                                  (examples- Puppet Style (Collodi, Colette, Hoffman), Summoning/Aura Control (Ramos, Dreamer, Kirai, Nicodem)

Ranged Style Masters; Attacks from greater than 6"- either through SH, CA, or other effects- Typically high damage, low survival (though not always)

                                  (examples- Sonnia, Rasputina, Ohpelia, Perdita, Seamus)

 

Center Control Strats: (Extraction, Turf War, Guard the Stash)

With the amount of engagements and the need to have models actually in the middle, having a master that effects from range seems counter productive. A master that can either support the tankey models hired in the center, or a master that IS a close range threat will usually beat out a ranged threat master.

 

Interact Strats: (Squatters Rights, Stake a Claim)

A support master will usually be my go to here- for instance Colette, or Hoffman, as they can often create more opportunities to models that are in good positions. There's an argument that a ranged master can stop either back field or midfield interactions through blasting scheme runners, but I find my playstyle likes to concentrate on me getting my thing done, and less on denial. (Which may be my tragic flaw.)

 

Quarter Control Strats: (Reconnoiter, Interference)

A support master that can increase numbers, or has some sort of recursion mechanic to keep model count high usually comes immediately to mind, or a master that can make sure the models that are holding that quarter stay alive and/or are more effective in general. 

 

Killing Strats: (Collect the Bounty, Head Hunter, Reckoning)

This is where my mind clicks with ranged characters, but with head hunter sort of punishing some purely ranged crews, that means a melee killer or support master would want to do at least that one of these three, and any crew can have some decent killing power when hired, meaning even the one that (in my head) should be the ranged masters specialty is having some crowding by the other two styles I like playing...

 

The schemes and terrain, of course, also play into my likes, but like I've implied, I can find myself creating solutions for ranged masters by bringing ranged crews. 

 

-BUT- I WANT to like ranged masters. A few specific ones, to be honest. I do like Rasputina and have had some success with here in things like Reckoning, and Collect the Bounty- with her great attacks, and tough, cheap minion models... 

 

I love a lot of the stuff Lynch does, but find how I use Huggy and Lynch's activations sort of lack luster...

I like the concept of Sonnia, but her close range fragility, and crew dependency make her feel static from a master standpoint when I play her.

The jump and shoot masters, like Perdita, Ophelia and VonSchill seem so straight forward and lacking in tricks that I shy away from them or play them in such oddball ways they seem ineffective. (I played a 'Dita list that had her, Abuela, and the Judge focusing on pushing Frank around and murdering 2-3 models a turn... It worked but was a lot of work.)

 

I don't know what I'm after. The answer to this post might really just be, "Well, they're not your wheelhouse, don't play them", but they have so much potential, I just can't seem to get my head around when and how to use the masters, and how to build lists around that type of master. Can someone who loooves the shooty master give me a shooty master manifesto? Which schemes and strats are the ones you turn to them for? How do you tool a crew around them? Am I just asking too much? 

 

TL:DR I tend to like melee and support masters, but want to branch into Ranged masters, but am having trouble playing them effectively. HALP.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The answer is because the game is just structured, both in the way it plays, and the way you gain VP to favor it.

 

It has been an issue since the game began. The game doesn't have complex shooting rules like overwatch, covering fire, suppression, enfilading fire, or snap shooting. All things which would make a purely shooting game tactically interesting. Without those rules, without penalties to ranged combat, the game would quickly devolve into gunline vs gunline, with whoever managed to shoot the other player off the table first winning, and with very little interaction between the players. So in Malifaux a ranged attack is to some extent exactly like a melee attack, but with a lot of penalties.

 

So, just like in the real world, effective attacks that can be made at a distance are almost always superior to a purely close range weapon. So in order to theoretically balance them ranged weapons in Malifaux have to deal with a variety of penalties:

 

-Vastly reduced ranges relative to what, in theory, they actually should be, coupled with those ranges often being roughly the same as the threat range from a charging model.

 

-The ranged icon, which makes those attacks vulnerable to having to be affected by Cover modifiers, which Melee attacks never are.

 

-To deal with randomization when models are in combat. Often you'll have a 50/50 or worse chance of wasting your AP shooting at something you don't want to.

 

-An inability to be used in Melee Combat.

 

Melee attacks often suffer none of those hindrances, as well as often having comparable threat ranges on a charge.

 

 

The best, and in general only Ranged attack models that I find that are hired to actually make use of their ranged attacks, as opposed to being hired for another reason and they just incidentally happen to have a ranged weapon, are those that get around one or more of those effects above. For example:

 

Freikorps Trappers get around the short range and cover issue by having access to the Pay Better upgrade in Outcasts, or just by Focusing themselves, giving almost table wide range, and the modifiers required to get around cover negatives.

 

Perdita and Lynch can use their guns in Melee.

 

Kirai, Ramos, and the upcoming Anna nee Lizzy Lovelace don't have to randomize when firing into combat.

 

Sonia has a very long range, can ignore LoS and cover on burning targets, and can use her ability to place blasts further away to outdistance many of the models that would wish to lock her in Melee.

 

And so on.

 

Models which don't have those abilities are just plain inferior to melee attacks in many cases, and just often aren't hired because the advantage range gives them doesn't compete with the disadvantages melee attacks don't have to deal with.

[EntrepeNinja]

I remember when you were teaching me the game back in 1.5 about board control:

 

Hard Board control was melee. If you're locking in melee, all you can do is walk, or make melee attacks.

Soft Board Control was Ranged and Casting. If you place a ranged threat somewhere, then a person can choose to walk into his sights and still do stuff, but it wasn't as direct or effective- they can still do the thing, they just might get shot.

Luckily, my MWM challenge has me playing all the masters I don't default to- Ophelia, Perdita, Sonia, Lynch, and VonSchill. The only ones that are left that aren't what I would consider ranged are Viks, Molly and Brewie. 

[Dirial]

I largely agree with Fetid on a conceptual level.

 

I like my ranged Masters: Sonnia can be great in Turf War or Reckoning, and Perdita is that awesome mix of control abilities, ranged threat and melee survivability. They are my go-to Masters when I really want to win.

[Bengt]

Perdita is better at close than ranged combat (because of Point Blank) so I don't see why you would play her as ranged if you don't like it.

 

Also, why are you calling Strategies Schemes?

[EntrepeNinja]

Uuurrrp... Fixed.

[benjoewoo]

Hmmm, I came across this thread after talking with someone about comparing ranged masters. I was asking if the current game environment leaves players in a "there is an effectively strictly better ranged master than ranged master X" situation, which in this game would have to factor in the ability to hire crews with movement manipulation, damage dealing/mitigation, etc, making such a comparison extremely difficult outside of a vacuum.

 

I found this topic interesting and related because it came to mind then that within a faction, given what's posted here, there could be factions that solidify the "there is always a better option in this faction than ranged." This would be kind of going off fetid's note that many melee models have effectively the same range as a ranged master provided they have sufficient charge and melee range, unless you always dealt in max distances. 

 

Any thoughts on this idea, since talking cross-faction may be difficult given the difficulty, if inability, to factor every crew hire choice, but talking within the factions would be easier since the model pool is significantly more limited?

[EntrepeNinja]

I think I hear what you're saying- you're curious is the question is less important game wide- which ranged master can do x effectively, and more important faction side, Which Guild master can do x effectively. 

 

I think that's a fine reposing of the question. I don't know if it changes how I feel about it, though. In that I've been doing "pick a faction" events, and my fallbacks are almost always my control or melee masters. For instance:

 

Guild: Center Control Strats: I would likely go for a Hoffman or a McMourning here. Hoffman can bolster models to make the extremely resilient and more murderous. McMourning does the same, and also allows for more scheme generation. Going with a Sonnia could work because of her ability to damage clustered up enemies, and potentially summon, but is more flimsy herself, and doesn't offer much additional resilience. Dita could work, in that she would be one of the main front liners. Her ability to bolster and take out singles could be very effective. This might just be where the I'm more comfortable playing what I play just rules her out. 

Interact Schemes: McMourning or Lucas McCabe. McCabe offers a speed that is nearly unmatched, while McMourning hands out interact ap like nearly nothing else. Dita and Sonnia don't bring a ton to these types of strategies, besides perhaps some movement on Dita's part. They can, technically, ward people off with poerful ranged attacks, but if I'm going up against that, I just make sure I can move and interact so if I get blown away, I still have at least locked in points, or redirected AP.

Quarter Control Schemes: Guild feels really bad at this. There's not a real dedicated summoner, so this is one where I have found myself reaching for Sonnia- Partly because she can hole up somewhere centrally and do big burst and thin out a quarter, and partly because she has the ability to potentially summon in new stalkers to bolster her own ranks. Past that, I'd go for a Hoffman crew, and do a 4-5 model side that pushes a flank, and a b team that holds a boarder and kills anything that crosses a line.

Kill Schemes: Depending on which one: Head Hunter, this is one that Perdita could excel  at. Her ability to kill a thing from relatively close range, then obey someone to grab it. That being said, Hoffman can Machine puppet something like howards langston or peacekeeper and kill a thing, then Machine puppet it with a mask to push it then perform the interact. Collect the Bounty: Perdita is a liability here. Sure she can roll deep and not take much of a beating. Hard to take down and can do a lot of her own killing. But her core crew is all enforcer and henchman who aren't as tough as she is- which means if any of them go down, you're playing catchup. And Sonnia could do better, especially if she murders her own minions as they get low to throw out some choice blasts. Reckoning: Probably Lady Justice- She just has the ability to kill something big every turn, and hire/inspire a crew to take out the other. 

 

I think that's a good way to look at it- role in faction as opposed to role in game. There are some good options for shooters in there, ya. 

And again. It might just be that it's what I default to at the end of the day (or the beginning of a game), what do I know can do this thing and that I am comfortable playing. But it feels limiting to think I can do everything with two masters. Being able to effectively play a whole faction seems like it would give me an edge, right?

 

ENinja

[Kadeton]

Interesting discussion.

 

I don't think you're alone in feeling limited by the thought you can do everything with two Masters. The Outcasts have certainly started to feel that way for me - take Leveticus when things need to die, and Hamelin for when stuff needs to get done. Take anyone else because you feel like a change of pace.

 

However, I suspect that's basically an illusion caused by falling into a comfort zone and a sense of familiarity with particular Masters that suit your current playstyle. There are people who will advocate just about any combination of Masters as a perfect duo for all schemes and strategies - some people even like Yan Lo. There's a complex web of crew interactions, action efficiencies, board setup and scheme pool variations that might make one Master slightly favoured over another, but the difference never gets close to "She wins and he loses." Player skill (mostly just making a good plan and adapting it as the situation changes) will always have a far greater effect on the outcome of the game.

 

Playing the whole Faction, as opposed to playing just two or three Masters, gives you additional options when you're asking yourself "How am I going to win this game?" You might be leaning towards a particular Master because of the strategy, but there are other considerations. Some Masters have inherent advantages against certain model types - what Faction is your opponent playing? Some Masters work better in different types of terrain - what does the board look like? Some Masters are roughly equally good at this strategy, but what about the schemes? Having the full range of options available to you, as well as a good understanding of each Master's relative strengths in a range of areas, will give you the opportunity to tailor your force more specifically than someone who just picks the best fit from their two options.

 

(On the other hand, playing the same two options over and over gives you a deep understanding of how to overcome challenges with those Masters, and allows you to come closer to their real potential. "Broad but shallow" or "narrow but deep" are both viable approaches, and neither of them will ever come close to being as effective as "broad and deep" - but the more options you have, the more time it takes to get a deep understanding.)

[benjoewoo]

I was in fact thinking that the question is less important game wide and more important in faction.

 

I think that, taking the view of the Guild perspective as described by ninja, it's more of ninja's perspective and preferred play style lending him to play the melee/support. Dirial seems to have perdita as a go to for winning despite the same set of rules, so play style lends heavily.

 

How do you overcome the limitations of range vs melee? Based on fetid's post, the limitation is essentially the relative inabilities to stay out of charge range. With a 12" in range on Perdita and an ability to push at the start of an activation, staying out of charge range is easier against most models, I just wonder how you can consistently do it with other models--as you might guess I'm referring to models that commonly have Ra 8-10. Ra 8 models seem to just not be able to hide from charge given most charge distances, and Ra 10 models can't out run a second charge barring blocking off line of sight against a non-Master melee model.

[Ludvig]

I think that a lot of successful ranged crews have ways of pulling out of melee or ignoring that restriction when targeting. It's not hard to avoid a charge if you have other models blocking the charge lane or can create a wall (like Sonnia and Rasputina). Sometimes ranged attacks seem weak to me too and Ican't decide wether headhunter is a declaration of war or a fun challenge.

If something following this sounds hostile I apoligize, it's hard to proof read from a phone but please take the following as earnest questions and reflections without any malicious intent. I am in no way perfect, just trying to help.

I would like to know what melee masters you play since you find several strong ranged ones are "too straight forward" and consider Perdita a master without tricks. What do you consider a trick if not pushing around everything, preventing interacts (ok, needs Nino but still) and having the obey ability? Also: a lot of Leveticus players seem to make an awful lot of ranged attacks with him, why is he not in the ranged category? (He sure is tricksy and highly competitive)

What is it you want the ranged guys to do that wouldn't be boring? When I think awesome ranged master, shooting things dead before they reach melee is sort of what I expect. You also need to block charge lanes (like sonnia) or have pushes (like perdita) since you can't shoot far like in for example 40k. Another good support for a ranged master is a somewhat slow model that hits like a truck if they try to engage your ranged threat.

If you want to like Sonnia but don't like her crew you could play her without her crew. Samael needs burning but she really doesn't and you are probably better of without that 9stone paper dragon who never survives turn 2 . Play Sonnia with a lot of constructs/family/guardsmen or Perdita with 1-2 of your regular family and the rest something different and you might find a playstyle you like better. As for the enemy getting all his schemes done before dying: try something that removes markers (for guild: try the executioner and hold him back so you can trail of gore through all the scheme markers when some threats are removed).

I also think it's a trap to think that you have to play the best master for a strategy. I frequently decide on which master I will play a day or two before the actual game since I have something new painted. Play the same master for 10+ games in a row and experiment to try and find new solutions. I find that I always need to see what happens on the table with an actual opponent that has a reaction and I spend A LOT of time theoryfauxing.

[EntrepeNinja]

First off- I love that that was extremely constructive, and also not in the least hostile. There's a real difference between, "wut, she's so gud, ur dumb", and "try and break the convention and don't get to focused on theme crews."

 

SO! I think a lot of what you said is clarifying something I was hoping to do anyways.

 

My "melee masters" with tricks are the McMournings (who has a great melee presence, a ton of survivability, and a good selection of abilities that are there to help with scheme generation), and Mei Feng (who has crazy mobility given good circumstances, and can create a huge flurry of activity to bring the shock and awe). I think that Perdita's obey and family synergy are great- but needing a ton of mid-high masks or stones to be able to use obey could be achieved so much easier in a crew that's actually built for the obey (Like Hoffman, one of my other faves). 

 

I don't think I want anything for the ranged guys. Not me, personally, at least. I just think that the way my brain interacts with Malifaux is less strong at the ranged presence game. And I think what you're suggesting is what I've been trying to do. I challenged myself to play every master I had 5 times before I gave up on any of them. I'm going to an event end of this week and I'll be playing just Sonnia and Perdita. Partly because it's their games I have left, and partly because I want to force myself into this new role. 

 

As for swapping in some of the other playstyle models, that's one of my favorite things about this game. I love taking stripped down synergy crews, and playing a second crew in the ranks- Hoffman with a few good loop constructs, and then Sidir and Frank, the two man wrecking ball. I've played two or three games with each of them- and I had a really positive experience with Dita, but my Sonnia games have just left me wanting. Maybe I should get away from the burning crew entirely, and just let her be a bombadier.

 

ENinja

[benjoewoo]

Something to be considered might be that some of the stuff that ranged masters key off of, e.g. Burning for Sonnia, Wp duels for Seamus, etc., is great if you get them, but don't build just around that. 

 

I'm pretty much a Seamus only player studying the words of fetid to understand more intricate and overall better play, so my experience lies mostly here and will be my example. One thing I realized pretty quickly even without studying too much is that if you built a team around terrifying for Seamus, you're probably losing unless the other crew has a lot of models that are likely to fail the terrifying test relatively early into the turn--12 seems like a lot but when the average WP is 5, you're not looking at much to get past it, especially since cheating the terrifying is far more important than making sure the actual attack hits for damage. 

 

That doesn't mean don't include models with terrifying, or more importantly Wp duels since that's what Seamus cares about, but don't build around that as theprimary mechanic for staying in your game. Things die, and sacrifice can be good if it gains/doesn't lose you points and/or denies your opponent points. 

 

That being said, blocking charge lanes is important, as long as the model you are blocking with is expendable or relatively sure to survive. That and engaging people with chump models if any to keep them from charging--the model will need a movement trick or 3AP to get out essentially.

 

Going on fetid's post regarding the mechanics and design of this game favoring melee a bit, I agree, with the caveat that if you have the terrain available, use the high point ones if possible? It's always nice to over hang and shoot into a town square from the clock tower while model have to either climb up to you or attempt to shoot back. Not necessarily the most effective tactic, as a high Ht building means you spend lots of AP getting there or you have a teleport, and there are movement tricks that can hurt you there--luring off a building or pushing off a building is always good for damage.

[Kadeton]

How do you overcome the limitations of range vs melee? Based on fetid's post, the limitation is essentially the relative inabilities to stay out of charge range. With a 12" in range on Perdita and an ability to push at the start of an activation, staying out of charge range is easier against most models, I just wonder how you can consistently do it with other models--as you might guess I'm referring to models that commonly have Ra 8-10. Ra 8 models seem to just not be able to hide from charge given most charge distances, and Ra 10 models can't out run a second charge barring blocking off line of sight against a non-Master melee model.

 

I think it might be helpful to say which models you're actually talking about - when you mention range 8-10 models (are we still discussing Masters?) that have trouble staying out of charge range, I can't really think who you mean.

 

The game has many different and specific ways for ranged killers to stay out of melee, or to function effectively within melee. Whether that's Perdita being a melee monster, Sonnia shooting people 14" away from behind a Flame Wall, Rasputina inflicting A Thousand Cuts then pushing away or being pulled out by Snow Storm, Leveticus chilling near Rusty Alyce and her snares, Seamus getting pulled away by Belles, etc... I can't think of a range-focused Master in the game that doesn't have some built-in or crew-based "Get Out Of Melee Free" card. Ranged underlings often have their own similar tricks - attacking without LoS, pushing out of melee, shooting from 28" away, free repositioning, disguises, using their guns as close attacks, and so on.

 

It's important that ranged characters have some limitations, to be honest - if melee characters could never engage them before being killed, the game would be heavily skewed in the gunline direction. As it is, ranged Masters almost always get the first shot in, can usually survive being charged, have abilities or crew synergies that kick in while they're in melee to either help them or get them out, and can also try to avoid getting into melee through careful placement. That's a pretty sweet set of advantages.

 

Incidentally, if you're looking for tricks to pull with Sonnia, I can thoroughly recommend the Schemes & Stones podcast episode which focused on her recently. It included a lot of clever stuff, and is well worth a listen.

[benjoewoo]

I was thinking masters at first, but I likely tunnel visioned because I thought of Seamus with his 10" flintlock/live for pain. But yes, he has built in get out of melee trigger, and his crews usually have push/pull from doxies/belles, which can be life savers for Seamus as an eject or as a healing factor when used on other models to leave Seamus there. Of course I also looked away from Lure's rather large 18" range. 

[Kadeton]

I find Seamus really interesting - he has great flexibility. You can play him as a shooter (more a ranged harasser than a killer, really - the damage track is awesome, but that once-per-turn limitation stops him from dedicating himself to it) but you can also build him for melee tanking and he's really hard to deal with even for dedicated melee crews. Even if you don't build him that way, a naked Seamus with a Nurse for medication can deliver a brutal slap-down in melee. His gun is great for starting or ending a fight, but for me he spends a lot of time getting up close and personal.

[Ludvig]

@Ninja: I think they push themselves around in a very similar fashion but sure, McMourning gets to give away AP and help with interacts which Perdita doesn't.

Comparing obey to machine puppet isn't 100% easy. Obey can use Sebastian's Bloody Harvest while he is in the middle of his own crew (not even an attack so can be repeated). Obey can use Langston's decapitate trigger against Hoffman's own crew. You can also move a model threating something from a good spot so that it is instead in the open or engaging Francisco with Diestro. Half the Gremlin faction has dumb luck . Paralyzing through horror duels is also nice.

Sonnia might suit you better without a heavy burning crew since it's usually not even worth it to try to get burning on stuff. Activate her when you see an opportunity, do one focused attack and then wall of all but one enemy model. Instead of burning try Watchers since they do exactly what burning does for her plus they are very good schemers.

[D_acolyte]

EntrepeNinja, I find your lacking two generalizations of masters:

Condition Masters: masters that gain something from interacting with a condition or hand out conditions for others to in the crew to gain a bonus. To me this is best shown by various Lynch, Brewmaster, Kaeris, and McMorning builds.
Control Masters: these masters limit options of your opponent, such as giving negative flips or pushing there models around. Once more I would point to the Brewmasters, as well as Lilith and Pandora who both can alter the way your opponent has to attack a problem.

This may be one issue with how you see a master acts as they are very focused on the "my" crew view, I help my crew, I kill X to help my crew. Yes Lilith can beat face as good as Lady J, but rooting Lady J or and Executioner can take them out of the game for a turn and might through a wrench into your opponent plans better then simply moving to kill them. The fact that I think on how I hinder another crew and my love of close combat may be why I tend to play neverborn more this edition than my Arcanists.

 

As for range masters:

To get full use out of them you want long close combat engagement ranges, this is because you do not randomize for shooting into engagement ranges if no one is within 2. Also multiple ways of pushing or getting people out of combat would be good such as bells or Snow Storm so that your master has a good shooting line. When I play range masters I tend spend focus if it mean I am getting only one good shot then so be it. I also try always to stay mobile with my master, often moving behind others of my models after I shoot.

Range Masters are difficult in Turf War Games because most models end up in the middle and it is hard to get people out of engagement ranges but tend to be wicked at reconnoiter because people split their forces.

 

I find that very few masters only do X and are rather a the sum of their whole often switching between 2 generalized forms depending on upgrades. If you find you like the masters ability and not how it plays as a range master try switching it upgrades, for instance switch Rasputina form from the I shall blast your head off through ice mirrors to control by lay ice pillars, paralyzing people will infuriate how some people play vs her or cause them to change how they approach it.

Also I do not mind if I loose my masters, sure it hurt but I will weigh what I trade that model for more than anything else and if it is not to much of a hindrance I will let any model die, master or not.

[EntrepeNinja]

@All: This has been an exciting and productive discussion! Thanks.

@Ludvig I've done watchers before and that was a lot of fun. Essentially, I was facing a Levi crew with Sonnia, and I kept countering his waif placement with a watcher up high to try and threaten blocks. That was very cool and a lot of fun. But then a hunter came up and engaged Sonnia and I spent the rest of the game attacking with her sword. I killed the hunter, but man... Overall a really fun Sonnia game.

 

@D_Acolyte You're right about missing master types- I even play a couple of them. I do like ice pillar Raspy a lot. And Brewie can be buff style with some of his theme models, but he does primarily control. I think I understand those two types better than the typical ranged master as well, but again, I default back to my me-centric buffing masters. 

 

The long melee concept is pretty cool, but there aren't a lot of models with 3" melee, save for guys with relic hammers, spears, or alligators. I'll keep that in mine when, though. Interesting bit of tech.

 

As I said, I'll be doing some research this weekend and will certainly report back.

 

ENinja

[EntrepeNinja]

Whelp. Six games played. 4 with Dita, 2 with Sonnia. 2 Wins with sonnia, 2 wins, a tie, and a loss with Dita.

 

I enjoyed all the games. Sonnia's big things were her ability to use crappy cards to great effect. Flame walls were pretty cool, but Violation of Magic Summons were rad, and "Discard aaaand now I'm at CA9" was really cool. Crappy hands mean nothing when you're at a +9 starting value!

 

Dita was plenty flexible, and I didn't just run around Obeying which is how I ended up playing a lot in my first two games. That being said, they were some pretty sweet matchups for me- Tara, Kirai, and Leveticus- three masters who's crews rely on incorporeal or armor to stay standing.

 

I ran a lot of Hunters, and some austringers, and Nino's spotter and a family heavy crew allowed me to beat one of the better players there. And then was totally smashed by one of the other better players there trying to use the same technique. I didn't adapt well enough to the new challenge.

 

All in all, I think I can understand the draw. I still think in the last Dita game I played, I would have been really happy with McMourning. But such is the actual challenge to the game- Knowing not just how to play all the masters.....

 

 

...

 

 

But when. (Mic Drop)

ENinja

[HowNot2Wargame]

Yeah Perdita is my fav. planning on going on a long Sonnia once grimwell and friends are out (and queeg, can't wait to start using him more).

What I like about shooting in this game is that it's more about pulling people in to counter attack rather than destroying them from afar. Threat projection only works if people have to walk a no man's land, which if you have the right terrain should not be happening.

Hence I think the key is to have some shooty high points, but then models who can then engage in melee. For example I usually get the pale rider/peace keeper married I to the family with Abuela pretty quickly as they help support this.

Hope this helps (?)

[EntrepeNinja]

Yeah, most of my lists featured at least a hunter. Many featured either the judge or fransico or both. Those are all some tough customers, who are good at ranged, and great in melee. So, when I'm protecting my half of the board, I don't have to overextend to push or push out too far to remain effective, and also I can counter a charge extremely well. 

 

ENinja