bertmac Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 I think they make a good target once they've served their purpose. Or if you are in the thick of it and don't want to hurt your own models. True. What do you think of the Pathfinder? I think it's a really solid model, though gives a bit counter synergy in the form of traps and then Riflemen randomizing to them? Only used one a couple of times they are quite cool and people seem to stay away from the traps as much as possible i'd tend to use them as protection for the pathfinder as my opponents do like killing off anything deployed from the shadows early. Number 1 minion after riflemen for me is a warden i think if i had access to more than 1 i'd have won more games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowfane Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 I look forward to seeing what will come out of you applying that filthy mind to Lucius! I'll just go ahead and inivte myself to the party. Elite Training has never done much for me. Either my enemy will kill Lucius or he will kill the flimsy minions I have tried using it with. I'm back to the more traditional Peacekeeper approach which works great with Lucius walking up or charging, using lackeys and placing a marker he then uses for Hidden Sniper to get . I use less and less minions for dealing damage, the ranged ones are so easily avoided by engaging them or just staying engaged with other models. Might be different if I actually had Trappers since they have a very respectable range. I have never used two lawyers since you mostly walk stuff up turn one when everything can stay close to the one lawyer and then use all of Lucius' actions for Issue Command or hitting stuff later. If you do find yourslef walking around it's usually not that hard to find someone close to the lawyer that could use the action. I suspect elite training works better in a Neverborn Lucius crew, as one thing the Neverborn do better than Guild is mix it up in melee - Illuminated under Elite Training, for example is horrible, not even counting the fact that you can use the Illuminated as Devil's Deal targets and then heal/regen the damage back... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 As with most things Lucius, Elite Training is better in Neverborn. The best thing about the Pathfinder is that you can kill a trap in his aura with Devil's Deal for a card and a stone, which is great. But again, better in Neverborn where (iirc) you can also give a Young Nephillim Fast. I've incidentally used Elite Training a handful of times, usually in Turf War. If Lucius can walk into a scrum, (passing an AP to, say a Witchling Stalker with Commanding Presence) and then Issue Command to the same Stalker something is probably hurting. Then Lucius really wants to Lackey's out for Something Big - Peacekeeper, Graves, Executioner, etc. Bonus if Plant Explosives is in the scheme pool. Of course if Distract/Cursed object is in the scheme pool then my Something Big is almost always a Guardian who will drop in, hand out two conditions (Ml Range 3 ftw), and (0) give himself Defensive +2. One thing to watch for with Lucius is that he has the best force projection in the game. Unlike most of the other AP redistribution masters he doesn't have to (or even want to) bubble up. Take a crew made up of nothing but Mimics and Guardsmen and he's got a 14" range on Issue Command. Commanding Presence is 18". Even Colette doesn't come close to that kind of range. Take a Watcher, stick it on something high in your backfield and enjoy spreading your AP across the board with basically no limitations. One last thing; when I draw my hand I look for a 5-7 of masks. If I have it then that card will be used for Lackey's. If I don't have it I'll look for 5-6 off suit and plan on using that and a stone. A 7-9 of Rams, Tomes, or Masks I flag for Issue Command, a 7-9 of Crows I can probably cheat for Commanding Presence. Once I know the kind of Lucius activation my hand will support I begin to plan my turn around it. Did I draw the 7, 8 of rams? I need to get Riflemen into position to take focused shots. I'll probably activate Dashell or an Austringer early, and move them into position for Firing Line. Do I have a hand full of high cards? Maneuver to generate the most possible attacks where they need to go. High Ram or Mask? Is there a game changing shot I can make with Purposeful Strike? Because Lucius uses so many low to middling cards, and because his crews are built by necessity around getting positive twists, I don't stone as often with him as I do for most other masters. Okay, I lied. I play Guild Lucius, what do you want from me? I almost never run two Lawyers because I hit diminishing marginal returns on them pretty quickly. If you want to take two big bubbles of 5-stone minions and deploy them on either flank then I could see it. I usually want at least one model that can survive a stiff breeze though. Hope that helps! Enjoy playing the Lucius anti-bubble. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 On the topic of Obeying people into killing the Proxy, the only Obey effect I can think of that we have access to is Abuela Ortega's. Perdita could get it to work, but I think that it is a testament to how good the Enslaved Nephilim is that I think I would still take it over the Proxy. As far as Lucius in general, I think that people are really discounting the cool stuff he brings to the Guild, namely the Mimics. You had better believe that I am going to be running Ryle and as many Changelings as I can fit in the list as soon as they come out. 4 point models with guns that come with natural plus flips or fists that deal 3/5/7 damage are pretty sweet, and Lucius can move them without activating them to preserve their Manipulative. Also, the Doppelganger. I would take it for Ill Omens on its own; combined with an Expert Sleuth or two, you *will* get initiative when you really need it. Then you have Mimic. There was a thread a while ago that talked about Guild Doppelganger tricks, but the two best ones that I remember are taking Sidir's Empty the Magazine action for mass slowing, or a 4+ bubble of up to 6 damage if Sidir gets the Cull the Weak trigger, and taking Sam's Flaming Bullets aura on a model that is more likely to get use out of it. I haven't gotten to play Lucius with real life models, but when I can, I am going to be running him with Sam and the Stalkers. Of all the cards the Lucius uses, low tomes are not very high on his list, and they can provide relief from random failures of his Commanding Presence aura thanks to the Witchling's Dispel Magic, and you don't get much better bang for your buck in melee than a Witchling. And you can blow them up with Devil's Deal. And you can make sure that Sam is placed for optimal Rapid Fire with Lackeys. Candy, Beckoners, Mr. Graves, and Mr. Tannen are all good models with tools that the Guild doesn't otherwise have access to. Casting actions, activation control, pushes, pulls, Chatty, Cooler... there's a lot there to like that can really surprise opponents that are expecting a straight forward Guild fight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 I will need to read these again tomorrow and comment more thoroughly but for now I'm way too tired and off to bed. Thank you all for your input! Solid gold here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimH Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Lucius (or any Guild master for that matter) could Merc in Ama No Zako and have her Promising Whisper someone into attacking the Governors Proxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Take a Watcher, stick it on something high in your backfield and enjoy spreading your AP across the board with basically no limitations. That is amazing. I have never thought of that. blatently need to do that next time I play lucius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorDragoon Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 And so it begins. The greatest horror of our times. Followed I don't know why anybody would follow a thread started by one of the stooges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Top Hat Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 How have I only just noticed this piece of genius? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimH Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 The best thing about the Pathfinder is that you can kill a trap in his aura with Devil's Deal for a card and a stone, which is great. But again, better in Neverborn where (iirc) you can also give a Young Nephillim Fast. Without checking the cards I know for sure that Devil's Deal is minion only and the traps are peons. Not sure on the Young Nephillim but I think he does trigger off of the trap dying (a more experienced neph player can confirm this). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Without checking the cards I know for sure that Devil's Deal is minion only and the traps are peons. Not sure on the Young Nephillim but I think he does trigger off of the trap dying (a more experienced neph player can confirm this). You really should check the cards. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 You really should check the cards. You're so hilariously deadpan sometimes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Without checking the cards I know for sure that Devil's Deal is minion only and the traps are peons. Not sure on the Young Nephillim but I think he does trigger off of the trap dying (a more experienced neph player can confirm this). After this model spends a Soulstone, it may deal 3 damage which may not be reduced to a friendly model within 6 to add 1 Soulstone to this Crew's Soulstone Pool after resolving the current Action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimH Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Wow, I was certain that I'd checked it once and come across some reason that you couldnt use it on Teddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Looking forward to hearing about your games with Lucius. He's another Master that I really want to get on the board soon and there is no better person to trust that somebody who has the downfall of the Guild in his heart! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 there is no better person to trust that somebody who has the downfall of the Guild in his heart! Such beautiful words. Like a true poet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 So, seeing as zFiend's zFiend thread about zFiend, I'm curious: why Lucius? Is it really as simple as him being the least Guild-ey of the Guild masters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 So, seeing as zFiend's zFiend thread about zFiend, I'm curious: why Lucius? Is it really as simple as him being the least Guild-ey of the Guild masters?He had to get a master he didn't already own, and I believe that narrowed it down to Hoffman and Lucius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 He had to get a master he didn't already own, and I believe that narrowed it down to Hoffman and Lucius. This. But this whole ordeal ended up me with Lucius and Hoffman.. So.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 This. But this whole ordeal ended up me with Lucius and Hoffman.. So.. A cunning Resser ploy. Now that you own the entire Guild faction, there is nothing left for people to force you to buy. Brilliant! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 A cunning Resser ploy. Now that you own the entire Guild faction, there is nothing left for people to force you to buy. Brilliant! I like the way you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorDragoon Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 A cunning Resser ploy. Now that you own the entire Guild faction, there is nothing left for people to force you to buy. Brilliant! Just as planned! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Just as planned! All according to plan! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Stop talking zGuild. Start writing Batreps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Hahaha. Well I played two games with Lucius today. But they won't be made into battle reps as it was a borrowed crew. One 50ss game, where Hoffman tore apart my crew. It was a half assed game on both sides and I mainly tried out models but I learned it's not a good idea to take Breakthrough in corner deployment and try to walk through a Hoffball. I did learn a few things. -Ryle would make a good postman, though he might be wasted on that duty. -Guild Sergeant is a damn fun model with Issue New Orders, that ability is great! They won't last long in the think of it though. -Don't take dogs in pairs and let one die turn 1. -Also my personal favourite. Lucius is a dick. You can run a model anywhere, drop a scheme marker and take hidden sniper to it to drop another scheme marker. "You there. Go over there and drop the evidence. We have a sniper in position to aid that plan." Haha, I love Lucius. 2nd game 35ss three way against Tara and Rasputina. Game ended 8 Raspy, 8 Lucius, 1 Tara. -Hunters are amazing. -My crew was so amazing theme wise. Double hunters, Double Dogs, Double Lawyers. -Entourage isn't a bad one for Lucius. Unless Karina shoots him with a red joker on damage to the face. He was left with 2 wounds though. Anyway I am really liking Lucius. The choices he has and toolbox he has at his disposal will take a while to master though. He sure as hell isn't the easiest master of Malifaux. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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