New Player, starting Seamus

[benjoewoo]

I don't understand the last sentence.

 

I think at some point you'll just have to put down some models and see what happens. Malifaux has so many moving parts that trying to engineer perfect storms to get the absolute maximum out of any situation will just distract you from playing the game and completing the objectives. If you try to cover every scenario you will end up with a crew that doesn't deal with any of the situations particularly well.

 

Within the Resurr faction we do have Izamu, Rogue Necromancy, Punk Zombies and others that can deal good damage (and can be boosted with the Nurse) if you want to deal with Melee. Again its all optional, find what works for you.

 

I think I understand, and hopefully this post makes that clear or shows I don't understand. I'm not looking to build the ideal generic crew--that isn't likely to work given that crews operate in many different ways, so I have to adapt.

 

What I'm looking to find is whether certain models offer me good options in certain match ups, and see if they're the appropriate pick. Someone posted earlier that against melee heavy crews, Bishop can be a good pick. I'm trying to find out if, for example, Bishop has other uses and if he's worth while to pick up for that kind of situation, or is there someone with better Seamus crew synergy for that kind of situation?

 

I asked before about crooligans vs. necropunks. They're both great scheme runners, but they have different sets of abilities, and are better suited to certain schemes. If you want to deliver a message to the enemy leader, necropunks can leap and use their ap to do it without having to survive the turn. If you want to hand out a couple cursed objects, you can do that by positioning/pushing crooligans into a couple models and then place 5" away, out of engagement.

 

I'm looking at my expansion options and seeing what models are worth while and why. Crew building I think is one of the largest deciding factors of the game, and I want to learn more about it since I'm still new and there are plenty of people who know more. Thanks for the posts, please keep enlightening me.

[benjoewoo]

Played another game with my Raspy friend. Yin/CCK were MVPs for stalling Raspy and killing Ice Golem, respectively.

 

Not sure how I would have fared with Bishop. He would likely have engaged Raspy earlier, as his ability to engage someone within 12" meant I could've engaged turn 2 after killing the Ice Golem.

[benjoewoo]

What are people's thoughts on hiring drowned in a Seamus crew?

 

They seem like a good melee model to throw into a contested fray like Turf War, and for manipulating enemy models into hazardous terrain such as Jakuuna. 

 

Kind of similar to crooked men, who provide area based pain, though drowned are more tanky and crooked men require scheme markers.

 

Even at 6SS, I'm unsure I would want to hire a drowned, because I would be preemptively choosing a melee centric model that's fairly resilient in melee but otherwise could explode to a range heavy crew. 

 

Seems much better as a summons, but a surprise pocket pick if I guess right and my opponent picks a melee heavy crew that I can throw the drowned at as chaff, e.g. Lady J/Lillith. Or, even with just a few really good beaters, e.g. Joss/LCB.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Never hire them. pretty much ever. The only master I'd consider hiring them with, mainly because of their speed, is Kirai. Jaakuna ubume is a specialized piece that I hire basically 1 in every ten or so game with Seamus, mainly because she limits you in a lot of ways. Drowned are good summons for Molly and Kirai though. 

 

Jakuuna is already a very fragile and valuable target to kill already. Adding Drowned to take advantage of her just adds more eggs into a basket that can already dissolve in water with minimal effort. It's a decent combo, but you need to be getting more out of it, in my opinion, than just that interaction. Again, not knocking her, but what she can do is easily countered enough that I personally wouldn't double down on models to make her better without significantly upping her survivability.

[benjoewoo]

Scratch drowned then, until I decide to build Kirai/Molly and start another thread for them.

 

I noted from one of your posts Fetid about Stryder, and I saw him mention in another thread that Seamus' activations should end with him no where near other units. 

 

Maybe you and/or Stryder himself could help me out, because I'm pretty good about getting Seamus in somewhere to do the .50 shot. I tend to focus it because I put Seamus far away from melees when he takes the shot, but is there a better use of throwing him closer, not focusing the shot, and then doing something else?

 

I know how generic that sounds, but is there generally more ideal play than 1. moving/back alley Seamus into position; 2. Focus; and 3. Fire a Gun? I got the impression from Stryder's post and from some of your posts that Seamus seems to go in, shoot, and then either back alley out/summon, shoot again with live for pain.

 

Mentioning live for pain, is it more AP efficient to go for .50 + live for pain or just focus the .50? I like being able to cheat the .50 to severe, and with Sh 6 the chances of landing a negative (turned to straight with the focus) is very nice, but is it more consistent in your opinion to just go for .50 and live for pain, which with double weak should result in 6 damage vs. a cheated 8?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Depends on what you are targeting, and how you are planning to use Seamus. A SS user or a model with H2W or I2W, usually better to take multiple shots. The thing about advice is that it can only speak to generalities. There is no one way to use Seamus, but the general use it to hang around the edges focus and shoot.

[benjoewoo]

Ok, so I'm not blundering too badly with him. I read about how players are playing other factions and I wonder if I could compete to counter them with my own play style, since Seamus seems so straight forward most of the time, and thus easy to read.

[Fetid Strumpet]

You can. It just depends on how well you can cancel your intentions. It's one of the reasons I didn't understand leaving off red chapel killer. What tends to happen is it will be used to jump, focus and shoot. What you CAN do with it is utilize the 0 action and then potentially jump up to three times in a row with Back Ally, Allowing Seamus to pop up almost literally anywhere on the board, and if you're good at seeing the board state, in the absolute worst place for the opponent.

[benjoewoo]

I've used it every game since that comment, because I like being able to back alley :0 

 

How often do you find yourself taking that option? It seems pretty expensive AP wise, but I would think you'd use it to put yourself in the most "ideal" position for the following turn to maximize shooting/interactions the following turn.

 

Also...how often do you Sybelle-comply models to take 1 AP actions? I find myself hesitant because the minimum damage is 2, so without armor a lot of people are getting hurt to take those extra actions, and only Seamus has a built in heal that doesn't paralyze, not counting enforcers with heal flips.

[Kogan Style]

Times to take multiple Back alleys are likely few and far between but an obvious one is when Entourage is in the pool. If you select Seamus to be the entourage target you will want Seamus to be in the enemies deployment zone, and 3 Back Alleys will definitely ensure he can put himself in the most difficult to reach spot for the opposition. This is doubly annoying if they are also trying to deliver the message. 

 

I would rarely back alley more than once though in a normal turn, I want Seamus to kill something each turn to gain activation control or stop Summoners getting total control of the activation order. But a rare event where I did Back Alley twice was on Turn one of a game against Gremlins with a pigapult. With Corpse Bloat/RCK and Sinister Rep on him I jumped over the the Pigapult and piglets and popped a corpse marker out, and blew it up to cause WP duels at -2. Killed some piglets, healed back some wounds thanks to them failing WP duels and kept the 'pault tied up until I teleported out next turn. But that is very much the exception rather than the rule. (for Context: The game was collect the bounty and I had already made Seamus a Peon)

 

On AP use: On occasion I have used a SS to give  to attack flip to save an AP for another action (particularly vs HtK targets) or if I know my cards aren't good enough to guarantee a hit (usually vs Def 6 opponents) Saving that AP for Live for Pain or Corpse Bloat can be worth the SS. This is usually a late game situation though.

 

The small issue with Back Alleying more than once is that the CCK won't be able to keep up. 

 

I rarely obey with Sybelle other than to Jump Seamus forward if I want to launch a surprise assault. Most opponents are expecting our Mad Hatter to appear on their doorstep on the first turn.

 

 

[benjoewoo]

Going to be starting a campaign soon, with 35ss to start. Never done this before but seems really interesting.

Since the first few games will be essentially with the same crew, I'm thinking the following to build eventually into Seamus, with a Molly option in case Meta favors it. A person in the group might start with Vik of Blood so a little worried about that.

Sybelle 8SS

Yin, 8SS

2x Rotten Belles, 10SS

Nurse, 5SS

Crooligan, 4SS

I didn't get an upgrade because I want the extra unit, and I think the ability to essentially grab the scheme running schemes better is more important in the early games, with should be smaller and so a little harder to kill lots of stuff. I'm hoping to mitigate kill heavy crews with belle manipulation so my other units can run, and if I have to go to combat I have a decent fighting ability with yin and sybelle.

What do you guys suggest?

[benjoewoo]

An alternative list would be:

 

Datsue-ba 8ss w/ Spirit Whispers, 9ss

Sybelle 8ss

2x Rotten Belle, 10ss

Yin, 8ss

 

The idea would be I would have a lot of flexibility, as I could open myself to going more normal builds with Seamus or getting the occasional spirit. With Molly, I'll be set up to go spirit or horror molly, just depends on what the other players do and how I'm doing.

[benjoewoo]

Stealing fetid's ideas again after listening to him on the podcast that just got posted.

 

Going to try for the triple 8SS model line up and see how that goes in campaign, with modifications depending on schemes.

 

Datsue-ba (leader)

Sybelle

Yin

Rotten Belle

Nurse

 

I know there's 1 extra SS--it will almost definitely be the one that lets Datsue-ba summon seishin. 

 

I'm going with the nurse over a second belle because I think the ability to control enemy models will be key in the early henchmen only led games. 

 

That being said, this list may just convert into a double belle with sybelle not too banged up and some other 7/8 model to give Yin unnerving aura. It depends on first day strategy/schemes and my opponent.

 

This still lets me convert to Molly as an option, but it's really so Seamus has the extra synergy option with some spirit models or at worst has a second summoner who's not bad on her own. Sybelle, Belles, and Yin are becoming pretty standard for me.