Meliondor Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I just had the chance to meet Goblins and wow, they feel like a Guild 2.0. I started the guild because I wanted to have easy masters that do a lot of damage (Sonnia, Perdita nd Lady J where my first ones). But Goblins really do this on a completly different level. The huge price guild pays for its ranged ability is the slow walking speed and the armor problems (no armor on own models and cannot deal with armor on the other side...) and of course all problems the slow wk brings with scenarios. Goblins just have a third activation and more models, what helps with scenarios and allows them to simply outshoot us. I mean seriously, I thought Perdita had overpowered shooting, but Ophelia just deals more damage per shot...with a free positive flip each time. So is there anything we can do better than them ? I can see how other factions play to their strengh and beat them...but IMHO gremlins have all our strenghs and their own (with third activation, cheap models and just more damage per activation...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Condition removal. No one does it better than Guild. Cast denial. Sonnia is bonkers at it. Dita is also way harder to kill than Ophelia. Constructs. Having no Armor is simply not true for Hoffman lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Absolution Black Posted June 19, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Reach High shelves. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Reach High shelves. Lenny with Stilts is Ht 4, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I disagree that we don't have armor. And even without, I find that my models are quite survivable (partially due to our range) compared to NB and gremlins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Have self-esteem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Have self-esteem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Buffing friendly models. No faction does that better than guild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 But seriously though, Gremlins are shaky knockoff Guild. Sure they might be able to do the same things as Guild, but cheaper and faster, but they come with the implicit issue of the wheels sometimes coming off. They have really strong support models, but once you know what they are and scalpel them out, they become a lot less frightening. Lenny, Pigapault, and Slop Haulers. Whenever I hear about someone having a lot of trouble with a Gremlin list, I ask if the opposing crew contained any of those models. Inevitably, there is at least one of them. Ophelia's shooting becomes a lot less scary when she has to flip or stone for the Ram on Thinkin' Luck, and without Slop Haulers, all of the self-destructive abilities the Gremlins have no longer become free. I still haven't found a great solution to the Pigapault, but one might don on me eventually. Also, keep in mind that Gremlins are sort of an all-or-nothing faction. You either lose big against them, and feel like they just do everything better than you, or you win big versus them, and you just kind of scratch your head as the opposing crew crashes and burns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 We do mid-size elite crews better than Gremlins... Our minions are at least as fragile and you will not out number them so that's one match-up where I leave Lucius in the box and reluctantly grab Sonnia and the Judge. It's also pretty much the only time you'll get any mileage out of Terrifying (living) so consider the humble Peacekeeper or Executioner. Lone Marshall is relatively survivable with Bulletproof +2. As Zinc Lich said; kill the support and the rest falls apart. In my experience "the support" is often just Slop Haulers because honestly, with filth like that what else do you need? I do have to disagree that we buff models better than Gremlins. I don't think any faction in the game has as many aura buffs as Gremlins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgarbonzo Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Nothing, just join the Gremlin cause. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Nothing, just join the Gremlin cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgarbonzo Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meliondor Posted June 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Ok, so I do see it right, that gremlins are just better if I rely on shooting stuff, some movement actions and buffing... I actually liked the family all the time and normally they do quite well for me. Next time I will try Sonnia. Walls to block LoS and AoE-damage to kill stuff that is standing in the same Aura. I think this might be one of the matchups where Sonnia is stronger than Perdita... Any other options / ideas ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Ok, so I do see it right, that gremlins are just better if I rely on shooting stuff, some movement actions and buffing... I actually liked the family all the time and normally they do quite well for me. Next time I will try Sonnia. Walls to block LoS and AoE-damage to kill stuff that is standing in the same Aura. I think this might be one of the matchups where Sonnia is stronger than Perdita... Any other options / ideas ? Don't be too quick to count Perdita out. It does depend on what the opponent is playing, but Perdita is the queen of single-target removal. Gremlins lists vary considerably from master to master, but once you take out their "linchpins", what is left over struggles to do anything. Finger On The Trigger also hurts Gremlin gun lines more than other lists, as they tend to damage themselves during their alpha strike turns due to Reckless and Dumb Luck, and she can very reasonably kill them if they try any funny business around her. The big problem I have using Sonnia against her is that she has a tendency to just die, especially if the opponent is bringing along Rami or the Pigapault. Df 4 just is not high enough versus Gremlins, and those guns pack a hell of a wallop. Perdita is actually who I would be most confident with, or Hoffman, if I knew the opponent wasn't going to bring Wong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katadder Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 also dont rely on blasts as merris just negates all those when they are sitting in a nice block. I do tend to think gremlins out guild the guild, and also on a side note out summon the ressers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 and also on a side note out summon the ressers.Wait, what? Ulix is a pretty badass Summoner but other than him, I really don't think so. And I still think that Nico beats Ulix in Summoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 also dont rely on blasts as merris just negates all those when they are sitting in a nice block. I do tend to think gremlins out guild the guild, and also on a side note out summon the ressers. For them to out-Guild the Guild, what is it that defines the Guild that the Gremlins do better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meliondor Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 For them to out-Guild the Guild, what is it that defines the Guild that the Gremlins do better? I started Guild for shooting + perhaps some movement tricks + buff effects. Gremlins offer much better shooting, also some movement tricks and passiv aura buffs. Now I to start thinking outside the things I want to play to beat the army that offers everything I want... I am really thinking about buying gremlins or quitting the game all together (we have enough other tabletops here, that did not do any crazy balancing fails for a whole faction). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Some movement tricks? Gremlins? They have lenny and gracie now that's more than enough movement tricks for the whole faction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katadder Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Wait, what? Ulix is a pretty badass Summoner but other than him, I really don't think so. And I still think that Nico beats Ulix in Summoning. wait until ulix summons 3 warpigs in 3 turns, or you face somers gremlin factory. they seem to have ways to get plenty of warpigs, bayou gremlins, piglets or even stuffed piglets to outsummon the ressers, especially if Som'er goes first (as is likely due to trixeibelle) then once hes done his summoning discards both peoples hands. would like to see nico summoning by top decking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Now that's a sad Nico. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I started Guild for shooting + perhaps some movement tricks + buff effects. Gremlins offer much better shooting, also some movement tricks and passiv aura buffs. Now I to start thinking outside the things I want to play to beat the army that offers everything I want... I am really thinking about buying gremlins or quitting the game all together (we have enough other tabletops here, that did not do any crazy balancing fails for a whole faction). a. Guild does more than shoot. I also question that Gremlins do it better in general. You are painting your picture with very broad strokes there. b. Why would you quit a faction just because another faction does similar things (some better, some worse)? c. Balancing fails? Malifaux? It's the best balanced game I ever encountered. Not perfect, but seriously: Which game do you think is better balanced? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meliondor Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Better balanced game by far is Warmachine / Hordes. It has other issues (the better player wins and depening how bad the worse player is a game can take less than 15 minutes and is no fun at all) and costs much more money. So even 2 factions in Malifaux are cheaper than one in WM / H. So I think it far superioer in balancing the main factions ( I do count guild as one of the main factions, I hope I am right...) without being a superior game to Malifaux. Back to topic: I want to play the way I want and this is shooting stuff, moving out of melee, shotting stuff even more and have models that are far superior to any thing my opponent has on the field what works only with buffing + killing enemies if my models die :-) This worked well with Perdita and Sonnia + papa loco in a Box, wichtling stalkers, Franc for pushing defense and the other stuff we have. I usually kill something big (master or 10+ Enforcer) in turn 2 and then try to win the game by force (killing enemies scheme runners while having only a few scheme runners myself. Very often I have one model pushed in a way, that it kills 1 enemy per turn and does not get attacked in return or just does not die (Lady J + Franc and Loco in a box, Perdita + Franc and Loco in a Box) or Sonnia + Loco behind flame walls... I think you get the Idea ;-). Now I realised that Gremlins play a similar game. Synergies + aura effects, very much killing power, some movement tricks and explosions if they die. Stuff like the Pigapult or their summon abilities are just crazy, too. So when I started guild was the best faction for me, but now this has changed to gremlins. No problem for me, more models to paint. And I think I stil like Malifaux, soI will just get some new models and will try to sell of my guild to someone who likes mexican demonhunters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Better balanced game by far is Warmachine / Hordes. It has other issues (the better player wins and depening how bad the worse player is a game can take less than 15 minutes and is no fun at all) and costs much more money. So even 2 factions in Malifaux are cheaper than one in WM / H. So I think it far superioer in balancing the main factions ( I do count guild as one of the main factions, I hope I am right...) without being a superior game to Malifaux. I will write something about the other points later, but comparing the balance of WM/H to Malifaux made me laugh out loud. I remember my games of Gunnbjorn vs eHaley too well to react in any other way. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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