Sonnia Criid. i do not understand

[Jewomie]

I know many of you LOVE our little fire witch. And I really want to. I do.

 

but I can't seem to figure out how to make her work.

 

I've played her twice. Once with all three witchlings, once with other stuff trying to summon the witchlings.

 

both games, I barely caught anything on fire. One of these games was against a Miskai crew with smoke and shadows and a string of lucky (really lucky) flips and I never even put a point of damage on anything. I got one guy burning, and his bro did an interact to put the fire out.

 

Since that game I have focused more on Lucius and Hoffman, but I really would like to figure Sonnia out since... well.. .she is awesome looking, and I hear such good things.

 

I've been over the usual places of course, pull my finger, reading battle reports, that kind of thing. but I just don't see some of these wicked combos you folks love to talk about. Also, is Hopkins really that bad? cause I kind of love the sculpt and it would break my heart to hear that he is awful.

 

Any input from the pros? XD

 

 

[Dirial]

Hopkins is not bad, he is awesome. He just dies fast, but he hurts so much.

 

Sonnia doesn't need to put Burning on everything (or anything). Ca 9 with 14" puts enough hurt out. I usually walk her into a position where she can shoot at people and then do that. Use the Flame Wall to funnel models into the shooting range. Summon when I can. That's pretty much it.

 

Don't try to make a specific combo work. Just use her action, try to get blasts, that's it.

[trikk]

I had the same impression but the thing is:

 

Sonnia`s Burning is just an add on. Kaeris needs it, Sonnia just likes it. Don`t focus on it. If you have a good card, hit someone (add a soulstone if you need the Book) and try to go with moderate damage (with Casting 9 its not that hard) and then put everyone on fire with the blasts. Now you can choose your targets from all the burning dudes.

 

Another thing is: charge with the Flame then shoot with Sonnia. If you hit the flame, cheat damage to blast enemies. The flame will explode and put burning on nearby enemies.

 

I tabled a Misaki player in 3 turns with Sonnia. 

 

Hopkins is... hard to use. He is slow and squishy but packs a punch. Give him Armour/Franciso/Lawyer/Guardian and this guy need a push but if he is in the right position then he can shoot everything in sight or Mallet stuff into the ground

[Jewomie]

I had a sneaky suspicion that I was over-thinking things.

 

The guy who ran that particular Misaki game has since admitted that 90% of that game was his amazing flips. It was so crazy. he never failed smoke and shadows, and kept all his guys on the outer edge to grab power ritual. by the time I could get my pieces moving toward him, he'd vanish again. it was unbelievable. lol

[Myyrä]

The number one reason for me to bring Sonnia is flame wall. To use it effectively you need to bring Malifaux Child.

I feel like using other models to cause burning with Sonnia is a trap. You can bring Witchling Stalker or two because they are good models, but you should never have to rely on other models to light your enemies on fire.

Turning enemies to Witchling Stalkers is an even bigger trap. It's good for occasional lols, but usually it is not worth even trying.

[Philosfr]

I got my butt kicked last week playing Sonnia for the first time against Hamelin... but Hamelin with two Friekorp Specialists and two Librarians. The ability to ignore Sonnia's blasts really hurt her effectiveness. We were playing the Carver scenario for an achievement league at our FLGS.

 

Sam on the other hand was a beast. He was behind terrain and each turn was murdering something that was on fire. Carver, Killjoy and a Wretch all taken down in one turn each or less. (Carver and Killjoy both were unwounded but on fire due to healing/regeneration). 

 

Unfortunately Sonnia couldn't keep up with the Furious Casting and shots of the Specialists, even with her anti-magic upgrades. Once she got murdered, Sam lost all his support and joined her shortly after. So I concur with others... Sam is a beast if you can keep him hidden and safe.

[MasterDisaster]

In all honesty I've tried Sonnia, I gave her a really good run of things and too me she seems very good on paper but for me she's a bloody slow, soulstone hungry, card devouring pain in the ass who's tricks are often traps or gimmicky. I've since given up on her but I know many love her and get a lot of use out of her so don't be discouraged. The most success I've had with her is just blast stuff stupid. Don't try to summon, don't try to set stuff on fire and most of all avoid melee as much as possible. Just attack with her and take advantage of Burning when / if it comes. The same goes for Samael, don't bother with his personal upgrade (the one that dishes out Burning +4) you'll never get the attack off as people will just stop it dead in it's tracks the minute they hear Burning +4. Just shoot or charge stuff with him and take advantage of Burning as and when it comes out. Don't try to set up summons, take advantage of them when the occasion arises. Take advantage of Flame Wall, taking the Child so you can cast it twice is always useful but not 100% mandatory. 

[Adran]

Sonnia and sam don't need burning. It does allow them to targte models they couln't otherwise, but it isn't essential. If they can see something they can probably hit it really hard.

That said, if you are going for a re-incarnation style build, you want to set lots of things on fire. They can do this. Witch hunt is a great upgrade for Sam, because any model that has cover from him, will be a viable target to burn out.

Using your own models to bounce blasts onto enemies is a skill to learn.Stalkers are normally very good at it, as when they die, they do more damage. And set models on fire, so even after you loose them as targets you should be able to target the model you really want to.

Largely, use her on clumps of models. do lots of damage.

[wizuriel]

I find Ryle with a handler is a great way to spread around burning, but I agree with others that Sonnia doesn't really need it.

 

I also recommend bringing a Malifaux child with her, double flame walls is a great way to control the board. 

[admiralvorkraft]

My biggest trouble with Sonnia is that her potential is so high that I feel like I need to build my turn around helping her reach it; getting burning on things, getting severe damage off for maximum blastiness, etc. As such I'm reluctant to just use throw her attacks out, and that's stupid. A perfect turn is one where she walks forward, attacks something (you'll hit on straight flips), and puts up a flame wall to limit reprisal. Your opponent will draw a no-go bubble around her to limit her potential and that is also fine.

 

Take her for area control and consider anything else she does gravy.

 

Re: Hopkins... It's a meta thing really. I don't play against anyone who wants to rush Sonnia since her angles of approach are really predictable and if the schemes allow for it you can hug board edges and not care about her (usually an option). As such Hopkin's (and anyone else with a smaller threat bubble than Sonnia) is pretty much pointless. I've run both the Papa's Favorite Box list and fluffier Sonnia builds and honestly the crews I like the best with her are independent scheme oriented models.

 

The last list I took with her was;

Sonnia - some cache, don't remember

 - Cherufe's Imprint (the best reason to bring her)

 - Counterspell Aura (mandatory against non-Guild)

The Judge (Stand for Justice makes him better with Sonnia than with Justice imo. You won't hit enemies with it, but pulling Sonnia around makes her massively better)

 - Unrelenting Leader (my opponent declared Neverborn, I was worried about Pandora/Obey spamming, turns out Collodi targets Df because that attack is complete bull)

The Lone Marshall (Breakthrough, Power Ritual, Bodyguard were in the pool and he makes them all so easy)

 - Plant Evidence (Breakthrough, Power Ritual... you get the picture)

Death Marshall (Pine Box, Wk 5 unimpeded, finish the job... They're almost as bad as an Austringer as far as how useful they are in every situation)

Witchling Handler (God is she good)

 - Disrupt Magic (because it makes Pandora cry)

Witchling Stalker (I should have dropped a couple upgrades and taken two, but hindsight...)

Guild Pathfinder (traps provide additional area control, Vendetta was in the pool and he could make a stab at it, he's good on paper but I'm garbage with him and trying to work him out)

 

The idea was to play for a draw on the strategy (reckoning) or score it if the opportunity arose, kill scheme runners going for Brakthrough/Power Ritual, hope to spot the bodyguard target if there is one, and straight up deny Vendetta. It would have worked but I misjudged how crazy fast Collodi can be and the puppet puts me on tilt immediately because his attack is just infuriating.

Anyway, Sonnia's my weakest master because she wants to attack and I'm just not aggressive at all. But this gives you an idea of how I approach her, and I will figure out how to win with her damnit, I figured out Lucius for christsake...

[papa smurf]

Never ceases to amaze me the way people think one dimensionly. Sonnia does not need burning to be good. She has a plethora of different ways to be played. All masters do.

In my most humblest opinion burny Sonnia is the worst way. Reincarnation is a trap. It does pay off sometimes. But hey a broken clock is right twice a day.

[papa smurf]

Collodi targets wp.....

[admiralvorkraft]

...So he does. My opponent must have misread the card (he was proxying) that makes more sense anyway given the way the stupid attack works.

[Jewomie]

Never ceases to amaze me the way people think one dimensionly. Sonnia does not need burning to be good. She has a plethora of different ways to be played. All masters do.

In my most humblest opinion burny Sonnia is the worst way. Reincarnation is a trap. It does pay off sometimes. But hey a broken clock is right twice a day.

The reason I personally was curious about the burning is since Misaki had her guys hiding on the edges behind cover and smoke pillars, it would have been a real advantage on my part to hit burning targets. But it really did not work out for me. I spent 4 of the 5 turns sitting in the center of the table laughing at how useless the schemes I picked were. (and if I recall, we had reckoning for the strat, and I took Assassinate and distract, so I knew I wouldn't be scoring any points with this game.)

In the other game, I read several players on these forums who said not to hire the witchlings, or maybe hire just one, and then summon them, freeing up some SS for other models depending on the schemes and strats. Lots of posts I have seen said that any "good" Sonnia player needs 6 witchlings because she summons them so easily. I did not find this to be the case, so I thought I would ask about that. Common consensus from you guys is that this isn't such a good build, but can be a nice pay off. I'm okay with that. I don't like summoning so much anyway. I'd play the filthy faction if I did.

I would disagree that anyone here is being so "one dimensional" about how to play her.

[The Zinc Lich]

My biggest trouble with Sonnia is that her potential is so high that I feel like I need to build my turn around helping her reach it; getting burning on things, getting severe damage off for maximum blastiness, etc. As such I'm reluctant to just use throw her attacks out, and that's stupid. A perfect turn is one where she walks forward, attacks something (you'll hit on straight flips), and puts up a flame wall to limit reprisal. Your opponent will draw a no-go bubble around her to limit her potential and that is also fine.

 

Take her for area control and consider anything else she does gravy.

 

Very much this. When I run Sonnia, I make sure that nothing else she brings will require cards or soulstones, because she really likes hitting that severe damage and she's really prone to dying. She also has some glaring weaknesses, namely her total lack of defensive tech combined with low Df and her slow ground speed and a middling to mediocre melee ability. Of all the masters the Guild can take, I really feel like Sonnia is the one that most appreciates Francisco; He can move her with Hermanos, she loves El Mayor, and he gives her a way to disengage from melee. I've finally broken down and put the Justice box on order, so I'll experiment with The Judge, but Cisco does so much...

 

I'm on the side of taking Witchling Stalkers for her. They're just good models, and they do a very good job of flushing out stuff that is trying to hide from her. Explosive Demise is where I get the majority of my important instances of burning, either from people trying to get rid of the Stalker from too close, or trying to get past stalkers on their way to engage Sonnia herself. I guess it is local meta, because the people I play certainly don't run away from Sonnia. Unless it is a casting-focused crew, she tends to attract tarpits or gets sandpapered to death over the course of several turns.

 

I love Sam, but I don't play him with Sonnia any more. He has a great damage output, but he also really appreciates having some cards and defensive tech to himself that Sonnia just can't spare. He has a permanent home, along with some adopted Stalkers, in a lot of my McMourning lists; the guild does not have a single model that deals more damage per attack than Sam does, and that makes him top a top quality option for McMourning's Precise buff. He's also a good elite pick for Lucius if you are bringing Stalkers, as What Lackeys Are For goes a long way in getting him to Rapid Fire locations.

[dgraz]

I disagree with most things said so far. I run a fluffy list that I rock with:

Guild Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Sonnia -- 7 Pool

+Cherufe's Imprint [1]

+Counterspell Aura [1]

+Reincarnation [1]

 

Purfying Flame [3]

Samael Hopkins [9]

+Witch Hunt [2]

Watcher [4]

Witchling Handler [8]

+Disrupt Magic [2]

Witchling Stalker [5]

Witchling Stalker [5]

Witchling Stalker [5]

 

I usually deploy Sonnia in the center with Sam, the Watcher and the Flame on one side and the Handler with the Stalkers on the other. The Flame and the Watcher work usually as blockers on the weak flank...the Watcher will also usually be tasked with Schemes depending on the pool...it gets ignored a lot and I've caught a few people with it's ability to lend Sonnia its LoS. Sam hangs back around Sonnia to protect her from anything swift enough to get to her.

 

With the Disrupt Magic Upgrade in the crew, I generally try to get my Stalkers close to enemy spell casters....they charge a lot, but I have no problem holding one back to shoot a prime target for Sonnia......I'll gladly throw a 13 on their pathetic Sh 4 to get the hit, because Sonnia doesn't need the big cards to connect. The Stalkers move forward aggressively, screening both Sonnia and the Handler. If an enemy gets past the Stalkers, I can usually get some type of Burning on them for Sam or Sonnia to finish...this group will generally protect one entire flank and the center.

 

If the enemy leaves the Flame alone long enough, I'll slide it in near a Henchman or the Master if I can, then unload on them with Sonnia....not being able to use SS against her is usually death for them.

 

The Handler stays out of combat as long as possible....her job is to move Stalkers or put Burning out there herself...her Burn Them All aura affects herself, and she has a great gun. Most of the time, her biggest job is just to carry Disrupt Magic....she has great defensive stats and she is pretty mobile....I've only lost her once or twice. She will generally try to stay un-engaged until late game. 

 

Sam Hopkins is awesome. I always take Witch Hunt on him, because anyone coming in close is probably hugging cover (if they're smart) and Burning +4 that allows Sonnia to ignore LoS and Cover is a helluva price to pay for coming in close. He (along with the Flame and Watcher slowing things down) will protect my other flank. If anyone is foolish enough to get near Sonnia, Sam charges them and annihilates them......I don't think there is another model in the game that can get to a Weak damage of SEVEN!! Sam can....wiped a full health Rail Golem off the table in one activation once.

 

Sonnia will focus on eliminating at least one big target a turn, but throwing her weight toward whichever flank needs the help. I'm generally not afraid if someone comes in on her if I still have Sam protecting her, but even if he isn't, her sword is no slouch with an auto trigger to heal and draw cards.

 

Flame Wall is generally more situational for me, partly because I use my Stalkers to block enemies....I'll throw them in with reckless abandon...because of my biggest disagreement with what many others have said....Reincarnation is not a trap. It's huge. I actively seek it every chance I can (once I was down pretty bad in model count, and summoned 3 Stalkers in one turn....turning the tide and winning the game)....it's one of the greatest summons in the game. Sonnia is mainly doing what she does anyway, nuking things....but then she gets to throw in a 5ss model for 2 cards or 2 stones when she removes an enemy....so they're down a model and I'm up one....that's just boss. Most other summoners need to kill a model, or have one of theirs get killed for the resources to summon...a Sonnia crew can have one model spend one AP to gain the resource she needs. It's the one ability that she has that makes her a viable choice for any strat/scheme....if I need models on the other side of the table, I'll summon a stalker over there.

 

The thing with Reincarnation and burning is that you need to not over extend.....I do agree that burning doesn't need to be spread all over the place.....I just need one or two decent models a turn to be burning....so the key is to plan ahead but always be ready to take advantage of an opening.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[papa smurf]

I honestly wonder how you deal with Ashes and dust with that crew. Your stalkers become aboms which might become stalkers again sure but just in general a&d hitting Sonnia is one of the worst things you can wish for.

[dgraz]

I honestly wonder how you deal with Ashes and dust with that crew. Your stalkers become aboms which might become stalkers again sure but just in general a&d hitting Sonnia is one of the worst things you can wish for.

Fortunately, not every single Malifaux player plays A&D every single game. Every crew in the game has a couple of crews that they have a hard time against. Out of the 40+ masters in the game, I think I can live with that. If I didn't play a specific crew because of a couple potential bad match-ups I wouldn't be able to play Malifaux at all.

 

I think having any high SS model beating on your master is a bad thing....A&D doesn't corner that market....the same could be said for Howard Langston beating on you, or Nekima, or any number of Henchmen....hell, even the low cost 'Cisco beating on your master isn't going to be good. Not for nothing, I don't need A&D to be burning to hit him...if he killed a Stalker then he probably isn't engaged anymore so I don't need to randomize, and his Df 6 isn't going to save him when his Wp 6 is giving me  on my Ca 9. Seriously, you could say "How do you deal with A&D with [insert list here]"....A&D is trouble for everyone.

 

And those Aboms will automatically be burning....I'll have a great time bouncing blasts off of them and turning them back into full health Stalkers with one shot.

[Myyrä]

There isn't 40+ masters in the game

[Math Mathonwy]

Double Wall (Flame or Ice) is the most broken thing in this game.

There isn't 40+ masters in the game

But there are 40+ Master and Faction combinations, which Dgraz was probably referring to.

[zFiend]

Double Wall (Flame or Ice) is the most broken thing in this game.

 

Dude, seriously, no. It's not.  

 

It's really super good but it is not the most broken thing in this game.  

[Math Mathonwy]

Dude, seriously, no. It's not.  

 

It's really super good but it is not the most broken thing in this game.

OK, true, it depends on the terrain on the table. If the terrain doesn't favor it, it is only super strong. But if the terrain favours it, I am 100% of the opinion that it is the most broken thing in the game.

[dgraz]

There isn't 40+ masters in the game

Okay, technically true.....what is it 39? I work for local government and the popular expression is "close enough for government work"

 

But.....

 

But there are 40+ Master and Faction combinations, which Dgraz was probably referring to.

^^ This is where my head was at.

[zFiend]

OK, true, it depends on the terrain on the table. If the terrain doesn't favor it, it is only super strong. But if the terrain favours it, I am 100% of the opinion that it is the most broken thing in the game.

 

If you want to see what is utterly broken in this game and when it's utilized to it's fullest potential I recommend you schedule a game with Myyrä and ask him to unleash Colette upon you.

[Math Mathonwy]

I don't get it. Colette is one of the worst masters in the game.

I hear Myyrä is available through Vassal as well...