Yan Blow?

[Patzer]

Yan Lo has a lot of critics on the forums. I am eager to hear why people think he is so bad, and also why those people are wrong

 

To quote a great warrior poet: "Discuss!".

[admiralvorkraft]

I have no complaints about him except that every time I run Ironsides I wish I had half as many ways to get adrenalin as he has to get Chi. Or an engagement range as big as his. Or Lightning Dance, god Lightning Dance is good...

 

But I haven't seen him on the table much, so he's got that New Master Glow where everything he does seems amazingly good. 

[doctorlucky]

I think the issue a lot of people have is that he the generalist of the resser faction. He really isn't better at any scheme or strategy than other ressers. He does cool stuff, but I think a lot of people have trouble identifying why to take him over another master.

[Corpsalot]

I think the issue a lot of people have is that he the generalist of the resser faction. He really isn't better at any scheme or strategy than other ressers. He does cool stuff, but I think a lot of people have trouble identifying why to take him over another master.

 

I think this is it. His most unique mechanics are bringing back Enforcers once a game, which can be good in certain situations, and good re-positioning. Other than that he

 

1) has decent healing, but so do other ressers

2) he has a meh range attack, other ressers have better range attacks

3) summoning is very niche, other ressers have more options and versatility

4) his melee damage is good, but a MI of 5 is underwhelming, mcmourning and seamus can be better,

5) can give out spirit and armor, but other masters like Nicodem buff minions a ton without having to cast and use chi,

6) does have very nice re-position, but so does seamus.

 

So in general yea, he looks good on paper but he is sometimes TOO much of a generalist to be useful in specific strats/schemes. It's not like 1.5 where chi was harder to get, but going down a path made him specialize towards being very good at one thing. Chi is now stupid easy to get, but it just makes him a generalist.

[Sezar]

That is all true... but I don't see why being a generalist and really versatile should be bad in a game like Malifaux, where there are so many possible variations and different things to do and suffer.

 

Yan Lo's Crew was a pain to play with for the very first 5 games I tried it, when I was defeated HARD everytime, but then I learned how to handle all their tricks and I use to win with it pretty consistently.

 

Yeah, the old guy doesn't shine as much as some others do, but he has the tools to make this part of the job done.

[Patzer]

Yan Lo's Crew was a pain to play with for the very first 5 games I tried it, when I was defeated HARD everytime, but then I learned how to handle all their tricks and I use to win with it pretty consistently.

 

Yeah, the old guy doesn't shine as much as some others do, but he has the tools to make this part of the job done.

 

What did you learn after 5 games?

[zFiend]

I approve of the title.

Also I will be following this with interest as I am one of the loudest critics.

[Patzer]

I approve of the title.

Also I will be following this with interest as I am one of the loudest critics.

Why are you down on Yan then?

[zFiend]

Why are you down on Yan then?

Well pretty much for the things listed. He doesn't do anything well or better than someone else. I prefer more specialized models rather than all around models. It makes the game more fun. Also I can't see why would I ever choose him over other possibilities from Rezzers or TT. While he might serve a better purpose in TT. Still I can't see a time to choose him over someone else. He is in a really tough competition for me with the likes of Seamus, McMourning, Nicodem, Lynch, McCabe etc.

[kross1]

I''ve had similar experiences with the old man, but I have used all of his themed models pretty extensively. So while I wasn't losing much or getting beaten badly , I could quite easily see it was his crew, and not him, that was contributing to my success. I even ran him with spare parts (helped make him feel more resser like, plus it gave Toshiro some one to buff.), but what really helped me was cutting his upgrades down to just Reliquary and using what's on his card. I rarely bother using or even gaining his ascendant upgrades beyond Ash, and only consider gaining Spirit if it will still leave me chi and something doesn't need healing. Yan Lo is a toolbox support master, and in my opinion, is better served handing out armor of there, finishing off a minion over there, lightening dance that support piece into Izamu or Toshiro influence sphere, healing a model over here and of course bringing one of the big guys back.

A typical Yan Lo list for me in say T.W., S.R., Hh, etc. etc. and that I feel can complete a wide range of schemes would look like this....

Yan Lo 5 ss cache

-Reliquary

Soul Porter

Toshiro

-Command the Grave

Datsue Ba

-Spirit Whispers

Izamu

Chiaki

Komainu

Onryo

Personally, he's become one of my favorites and I find him pretty rewarding to play, especially since he is considered subpar!

[lusciousmccabe]

I suppose being a generalist with a limited summoning pool makes him pretty new-player friendly at least?

[Sezar]

Ohhh, Forgot to say that I recently started playing the old Man with more Spirit oriented Crews (Datshue, Onryos and Shikomes mostly, as I like to keep the oriental theme), and let me tell you it is a blast, specially against Armoured opponents (Arcanists!).

Datshue is a beast and she gives Yan more activations thanks to all the various Sheisins, Gakis and Onryos she will keep summoning all game, as well as even allowing Yan to gain extra Chi off the Sheisins if needed, and even giving Izamu or any other Spirit some extra movility on top of the one given by the Soul Porter.

 

 

And well, I play on a pretty competitive environment, and all I can say about Yan Lo is that what my opponents hate about playing against him is exactly that he is really versatile, able to do most anything, so you can't really lock down his game... and on top of that, he is usually pretty hard to take down too! (even almost impossible if Chiaki and a Nurse are around!)

[Patzer]

Well pretty much for the things listed. He doesn't do anything well or better than someone else. I prefer more specialized models rather than all around models. It makes the game more fun. Also I can't see why would I ever choose him over other possibilities from Rezzers or TT. While he might serve a better purpose in TT. Still I can't see a time to choose him over someone else. He is in a really tough competition for me with the likes of Seamus, McMourning, Nicodem, Lynch, McCabe etc.

First, Lightning Dance separates him quite a bit from the other masters I think. No other Resser master can move enemies with such ease (not taking the help of Belles or the Dead Rider into consideration here). In Ressers that can be quite powerful, if you throw the model into Yin and Izamu with Unnerving Aura for example. Second, your argument against him just say that the others are better at him at a specific task, which is fine, but you aren't pointing to why that makes him worse than them. He can do a little bit of everything; isn't that powerful too? Usually generalist models are view as being powerful. Maybe you think he is too sub par in his abilities to make him worthile? I am just saying that pointing out that one master is better at one thing than Yan Lo doesn't mean he is awful all around. Its like saying Ironsides is better than Rasputina since she is better than melee. Also, just to clarifying, this inquiry isn't pointed at you specifically Zfiend, I just quoted you to spring the argument  

Ohhh, Forgot to say that I recently started playing the old Man with more Spirit oriented Crews (Datshue, Onryos and Shikomes mostly, as I like to keep the oriental theme), and let me tell you it is a blast, specially against Armoured opponents (Arcanists!).

Datshue is a beast and she gives Yan more activations thanks to all the various Sheisins, Gakis and Onryos she will keep summoning all game, as well as even allowing Yan to gain extra Chi off the Sheisins if needed, and even giving Izamu or any other Spirit some extra movility on top of the one given by the Soul Porter.

 

 

And well, I play on a pretty competitive environment, and all I can say about Yan Lo is that what my opponents hate about playing against him is exactly that he is really versatile, able to do most anything, so you can't really lock down his game... and on top of that, he is usually pretty hard to take down too! (even almost impossible if Chiaki and a Nurse are around!)

Really cool. This is were I think he is a bit overlooked in Ressers, as the other spirit master. He seems to synergies fairly well with the spirits overall.

 

Another thing, is Datsue Ba turning into Ressers' answer to Mechanical Rider? x)

[Dirial]

Another thing, is Datsue Ba turning into Ressers' answer to Mechanical Rider? x)

 

Friend of mine has a lot of success with her in one specific thing: She unerringly finds the Black Joker everytime she tries something important....

[chris_havoc]

A lot of discussion here on it: http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/107350-yan-lo-question/

[daniello_s]

I put it this way - if I were forced to play Ressers I would pick Yan Lo as his setting is awesome.

Apart of that, all Resser Masters deserve to die and they will

[zFiend]

Apart of that, all Resser Masters deserve to die and they will all the good and a long life.

 

Wow that was a bad typo there. Gladly I fixed it. 

[dgraz]

I prefer the flexibility that generalists give. I might go into a game with a semi-plan, but I think my biggest asset in a game is that I'm pretty good at evaluating the flow of battle....seeing where the defining moments of the game are going to happen. I'm also pretty good at assessing opponent mistakes....everyone makes them to varying degrees, but you can't really capitalize on every one....I'm good at picking the ones that will really matter.

 

The flexibility of a generalist allows me to get the maximum mileage from my strengths....and also allows me to cover some of my weaknesses (of which I also have a fair share). A generalist can flow with changes that develop during the game....they may not be the best at any one thing, but they can still do those things to be able to take advantage of them when they present themselves.

 

In a very recent example, I was trying out McCabe (someone I consider a generalist) for the first time against Sonnia......AFTER reading through the forums and all the people that say he shouldn't be in melee and should be in more of a support role......turn 3 the opportunity presented itself and McCabe charged Sonnia doing some damage, then gave a Guild Hound the glowy sword (thereby pushing it into Companion range) so it could then charge and finish off Sonnia.

 

So yeah, maybe he isn't the best beat-stick, but a dead Sonnia proves that he can still do it. I'm not saying that a more specialized master (like Lady J) couldn't have killed Sonnia, but the opponent knows that too and they stay away from her.....seeing McCabe as less of a real melee threat lets him get a little closer without raising all the red flags....then he can shift gears and teach you a lesson.

 

Meanwhile, if something is happening on the other side of the table that needs more attention, he could have acted more as support and helped out models over there......Lady J certainly couldn't do that.

 

There's a reason Marcus is my favorite master....he's one of the biggest generalists there is....the only thing he lacks is a ranged attack but he can de-buff at range.

 

Yan Lo is definitely a generalist....and that's what I like about him. I don't play him as a filthy Resser.....but I have played him several times as 10T using only his normal crew (and other than having Recalled Training it could have been a Resser crew).....and he worked well for me.

[zFiend]

That is a really cool point on generalists dgraz.. You have given me a lot to think about. Cheers!

[dgraz]

Wow! I impressed you so much that you let the "typo" go!

 

A lot of it depends on personal style and recognizing your own strengths and weaknesses. I know I do well with a generalist. But I can't play a pure support master at all......I really stink with someone like Hoffman.....and I do okay with a specialist like Sonnia or Raspy.....but I play best with a generalist.  That's me.....that's my style.

[Patzer]

Dgraz, cool move with McCabe. I don't see what the problem is with having McCabe in melee though, since he becomes df 6-7 then... That is for another thread and day though.

 

Really neat points about the strength of a generalist master's ability to adapt to the flow of the game. I have question though. Do you feel that the Chi condition limits Yan to an extent since he needs to be somewhat near the action in order to ramp up the condition, thus being able to flourish? In other words, do you think the other generalist you spoke have more dependent ways of getting the most of their abilities?

[Dirial]

Wow! I impressed you so much that you let the "typo" go!

 

Ahahaha! Owned!

[zFiend]

Damn it you are right dgraz. Well you earned it.

[MasterDisaster]

 

1) has decent healing, but so do other ressers

2) he has a meh range attack, other ressers have better range attacks

3) summoning is very niche, other ressers have more options and versatility

4) his melee damage is good, but a MI of 5 is underwhelming, mcmourning and seamus can be better,

5) can give out spirit and armor, but other masters like Nicodem buff minions a ton without having to cast and use chi,

6) does have very nice re-position, but so does seamus.

 

These are basically my primary issues with the guy. Every time I've tried him out I just felt like I have an Ancestors crew where Yan Lo just sort of tagged along for the ride. Now being a generalist isn't a bad thing. Von Schill is probably the biggest generalist out there, being good at everything but not really specializing at any one thing. My problem is that Von Schill has interesting and Unique things about him. Yan Lo's only real gimmick is his Chi condition which never really seems to impact the game all that much. Everything he does others do much better and in a much more interesting manor. His Ancestors are way more useful than he is in my opinion.

[Patzer]

Yan Lo's only real gimmick is his Chi condition which never really seems to impact the game all that much. Everything he does others do much better and in a much more interesting manor. His Ancestors are way more useful than he is in my opinion.

Once again I will play the Yan's advocate. The Chi condition can quite easily make Yan de facto df/wp 8, impossible to wound, and/or incorporeal. Terracotta Curse can in the right situation paralyse a whole opposing crew, or at least severely hamper them. It can make Yan a very good supporter and resser of the ancestors too!