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Void versus buried bette/killjoy

Question

As the title suggests, what happens if say a Void Wretch uses it attacks to target a buried Bette Noire and Killjoy.

 

Does normal rules for Terrifying count?

 

What happens if you manage to kill Bette while she is buried can she still do her burying action when reaching 0 wounds?

 

Tried searching but my Fu is rubbish

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I would assume that terryfying still applied. (although my answer to the next part ,makes me question this alittle)

Buried models don't get to use theire abilities when they are killed whilst buried. I Think its page 38 of the little book, but may be wrong.

 

Edit

Under the "Dead and Buried" section of the "Buried" rule (p.47), it states that if a model is killed while buried, "it will not benefit from any abilities that happen on the model's death (like Finish the Job)."

 

Finish the Job begins its rules with, "When this model is killed, ..."

 

I'm sticking with still suffering the horror duel

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Bête's Death Rattle is not a "killed" ability, it's happens on "reduced to 0 wounds" so should work when buried.

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Bête's Death Rattle is not a "killed" ability, it's happens on "reduced to 0 wounds" so should work when buried.

 

Hm. But her spell buries her and heals her. If she is buried already, she cannot be buried. Thus, she would die again....

 

Sounds really murky, this one.

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Hm. But her spell buries her and heals her. If she is buried already, she cannot be buried. Thus, she would die again....

 

Sounds really murky, this one.

I don't think there is anything stopping you from being buried while buried. And if there were I don't think the bury part of One With the Night is a cost so the rest of the spell should still work.

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If we're supposed to not read too much into specific words used, then I don't think there's much difference between 'is killed' and 'reduced to 0 wounds', and the Dead and Buried part would apply to Death Rattle.

 

Beyond that, though, aren't there other examples of if you can't do part of a thing you still can do the other parts? So even if she can't be buried because she already is (which is it's own debate), couldn't the heal still go off?

 

No cards or book to look at, so it might depend on the specific wording for me.

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If we're supposed to not read too much into specific words used, then I don't think there's much difference between 'is killed' and 'reduced to 0 wounds', and the Dead and Buried part would apply to Death Rattle.

 

 

Issue is a lot of Malifaux is based on key words. So the assumption is that when the word "killed" isn't used it doesn't mean the same thing, even if in theory being reduced to 0 wounds is the same thing. A model can be at 0 wounds (and thus effectively dead) but not "killed."

 

I agree w/ SpiralingCadaver in that Bete's ability shouldn't trigger but at the same time RaW doesn't really support that argument. Of course, I'm willing to bet I'm reading waaaay too much into it and somewhere Justin is reading this and wondering why he even bothers.

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If we're supposed to not read too much into specific words used, then I don't think there's much difference between 'is killed' and 'reduced to 0 wounds', and the Dead and Buried part would apply to Death Rattle.

It's Malifaux. The rules are tight enough that it's best to assume RAW and that rules aren't synonymous with other rules. There are almost no cases of that kind of overlap, and the various stages and types of death I believe are pretty distinctly separated/timed.

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A model can be at 0 wounds (and thus effectively dead) but not "killed."

 

Unless otherwise stated, a model at 0 Wds is immediately removed from play as killed. A model can be killed without being at 0 Wds, and some models aren't killed at 0 Wds (like Levi).

 

I really just noticed that Bete cannot bury if killed by an insta-kill trigger. Marvelous. 

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Unless otherwise stated, a model at 0 Wds is immediately removed from play as killed. A model can be killed without being at 0 Wds, and some models aren't killed at 0 Wds (like Levi).

 

I really just noticed that Bete cannot bury if killed by an insta-kill trigger. Marvelous. 

 

Could be. I don't have the rulebook in front of me. My point was that 0 wounds doesn't always equal "killed." It usually will, but not always. And as such, if Wyrd wants something to be killed they'll say "killed." And conversely, models like Bete and Levi that have abilities to get around "killed" will have those abilities specifically pointed out.

 

The way I read it, Void Wretch attacks buried Bete. She is reduced to 0 wounds. Bury her (again, because it's technically allowed), and heal her up. Because that's RaW. It's wonky, and more than a little strange. Probably needs an FAQ. 

 

But that's just me. I've been known to be wrong before.

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Eh, I don't think it's the worst thing ever. Sure, she doesn't die for sure since she can protect herself by re-burying, but it does mean that playing against tara is still more dangerous since it means you need to keep a 10 around even when you'd otherwise be protected by being buried.

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From the rule book.
 
Dead & Buried
It is possible for models to be killed while they are
buried, albeit somewhat rarely. If a model that is buried
is killed, it will not benefit from any abilities that happen
on the model's death (like Finish the Job).
 
So Bete cannot heal herself and bury if she dies while buried.
 
edit: Just realized this was posted earlier, but apparently was still being overlooked by discussion.
 
Doesn't cover if terrifying tests are made though.

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So Bete cannot heal herself and bury if she dies while buried.

 
edit: Just realized this was posted earlier, but apparently was still being overlooked by discussion.

 

 

As said above, Death Rattles doesn't trigger on the models death.

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As said above, Death Rattles doesn't trigger on the models death.

 

Yeah. 

 

Still it's a bit weird though what actually happens. A FAQ might be in order. 

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Of course it does. 0 wounds always means death unless you have an ability stating otherwise.

death and zero wounds are the same thing.

 

They are, unless something states differently. Bete may take an action when reduced to 0 Wds. If it's successful, she isn't dead. Thus, it's at least debatable.

 

Still it's a bit weird though what actually happens. A FAQ might be in order. 

 

I agree.

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35 minutes ago, colron said:

if bette is paralyzed can she use death rattles?

 

No.  Paralyzed models are not allowed to declare actions.  Originally she could, but paralyzed was changed via Errata a few years back to say the paralyzed model isn't allowed to declare actions.

This probably should have gotten its own thread instead of digging up one from 3 years ago.

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