Jump to content

What do you think when your opponent declares a faction?


CanYaDigIT

Recommended Posts

Crews have synergy, but every master has that synergy. Can Seamus win reconnoiter, sure. Can Molly or Nico win a reckoning, of course. Is it hard to win with those masters based on there nature, uh huh. If you go into a match, with a master and core group already picked out, chances are you are setting yourself up for disaster. Malifaux isnt about a list.

Not sure those are good examples!  Seamus is excellent at Reconnoiter and Nico excels at Reckoning!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nico and Ramos are probably the two best recon masters and Seamus is one of the better resser masters at reckoning.

While that might be true,

Seamus is excellent at Reconnoiter and Nico excels at Reckoning!

this is definitely true, too.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure those are good examples!  Seamus is excellent at Reconnoiter and Nico excels at Reckoning!

 

Strangely I've also found this to be true. When I declare Nico for Reckoning people give me strange looks, then I slap them around for 5 turns and prove why Nico is not only the King of Ressers but also why the rest of them can suck it! (Tara excluded because in all seriousness we know she's an Outcast really) :D

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Strangely I've also found this to be true. When I declare Nico for Reckoning people give me strange looks, then I slap them around for 5 turns and prove why Nico is not only the King of Ressers but also why the rest of them can suck it! (Tara excluded because in all seriousness we know she's an Outcast really) :D

Indeed, Nico is baller at Reckoning.  What's that Izamu with four attacks a turn?!  How about dishing out another attack for Killjoy.  Oh you hurt ones of my dudes, how about a full heal.  A summon you say?  Well I guess I could.  How about a full health HtK Punk Zombie ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed, Nico is baller at Reckoning.  What's that Izamu with four attacks a turn?!  How about dishing out another attack for Killjoy.  Oh you hurt ones of my dudes, how about a full heal.  A summon you say?  Well I guess I could.  How about a full health HtK Punk Zombie ...

 

Hahaha this is why he's insane at Reckoning. You just need to make sure you don't leave any Mindless Zombies around for easy kills. Use all them lovely corpses up for heals and summons and laugh maniacally at your opponent as you steam roll over their crew. The look on an opponents face after they've dropped Izamu to 1-2 wounds only to have him fully healed immediately after makes it all worth it! :D

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are great examples. Nico and Ramos are probably the two best recon masters and Seamus is one of the better resser masters at reckoning.

 

Hmm, I don't think I really agree. Nico and Ramos are very good at Recon, because they have a very obvious way to increase their crew size, which is pretty good at recon. You don't need to actually be a good player of them to do fairly well.

One of the reasons they are seen to do well in those games is because everyone says they are good at those games. Its kind of self forfilling. It also makes for a great excuse.

So everyone can take them and at the lower skill levels of the game, they are more likely to win.

At the higher skill levels, they probably aren't better, but we all learnt when we started to play that they were the best, and so that has become the "wisdom".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, I don't think I really agree. Nico and Ramos are very good at Recon, because they have a very obvious way to increase their crew size, which is pretty good at recon. You don't need to actually be a good player of them to do fairly well.

One of the reasons they are seen to do well in those games is because everyone says they are good at those games. Its kind of self forfilling. It also makes for a great excuse.

So everyone can take them and at the lower skill levels of the game, they are more likely to win.

At the higher skill levels, they probably aren't better, but we all learnt when we started to play that they were the best, and so that has become the "wisdom".

 

Ever been on the receiving end of Summon Spamming Nico in Reconnoiter? It can be pretty unpleasant. I've had one Nico summon roughly 80ss worth of stuff over 5 turns of Reconnoiter whilst my Kaeris crew dwindled down to 25ss, even though I was killing to hold back some of the tide he ended the game with a 98ss crew and I'd killed a good 25-300ss worth of stuff. Nico just summons Night Terrors with absolute ease and they are ridiculously powerful for Reconnoiter, then consider 3AP summoned Shikome, Necro Punks / Crooligans for Schemes also in the mix alongside hiring things like Izamu who's being baby sat by the Grave Spirit and things turn real ugly real fast as his freshly summoned Belles start to pull you out of your quarters or into the 6" center bubble that means you don't count for Reconnoiter.

 

Nico isn't good at Reconnoiter because people say he is. They say it because it's true, he's a total badass at that Strategy with the only other contenders of his caliber being Kirai, Ramos and Dreamer. These Masters are great for Reconnoiter because the Strategy plays to their strengths, it's just that simple. Whilst it's true it's not particularly hard to use Nico as he can be very forgiving and he is somewhat beginner friendly using Nico effectively requires a knowledge of the faction in it's entirety because summoning the right minion for the right job is what it's all about. Also knowing when to summon which should always be his secondary focus and when to support his crew instead plays a key role to his play style in my opinion. Nico is a lot more complex than you give him credit for. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah think I'm getting confused with Kirai, either way, those things are god damn stupid for 3ss. (Yes I'm salty and yes I'm bitter) Stupid Ressers. 

They are insanely good in Reconnoiter.  I don't take them generally otherwise though they might make a Kirai list for something to swirl off

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't get me wrong, Nico is powerful in Recon. But its an obvious power. He typically will summon models and go for the outnumber that way.

And I will say I'm a rubbish Nico player, I can't really get him to do anything, and the few times Ive play him its been against less experienced players, who know the basic tricks, but certainly aren't top players, so I've not had that many problems beatting him.

 

He is a powerful and complex master. A lot of his power is knowing when to summon, and what to summon to make the most of the situation, and that isn't always just the higest thing you can summon.

If your plan doesn't stop his plan, then he will probably win recon (where his standard plan is to outnumber you).

I would add Sommer to your list of top recon masters, and then say that Nico is one of the easiest of those to shut down.  Get rid of his corpse markers and unless the player has a good plan B, you're probably laughing. (I know most of the time he should have a crew to make those markers, but tehy will almost always sit around for at least 1 of your activations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't get me wrong, Nico is powerful in Recon. But its an obvious power. He typically will summon models and go for the outnumber that way.

And I will say I'm a rubbish Nico player, I can't really get him to do anything, and the few times Ive play him its been against less experienced players, who know the basic tricks, but certainly aren't top players, so I've not had that many problems beatting him.

 

He is a powerful and complex master. A lot of his power is knowing when to summon, and what to summon to make the most of the situation, and that isn't always just the higest thing you can summon.

If your plan doesn't stop his plan, then he will probably win recon (where his standard plan is to outnumber you).

I would add Sommer to your list of top recon masters, and then say that Nico is one of the easiest of those to shut down.  Get rid of his corpse markers and unless the player has a good plan B, you're probably laughing. (I know most of the time he should have a crew to make those markers, but tehy will almost always sit around for at least 1 of your activations.

 

You raise a fair point. Also I forgot about Som'er but as the Gremlins are unadulterated filth I don't acknowledge them as a real faction so I can be forgiven for missing him out :D

 

To be fair most Nico crews have a way to generate corpses, either via Corpse Bloat, Morti or Canine Remains so I've never really found it so be a problem. Similarly for Ramos he has ways to make himself resources with Joss etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

for the most part, I agree that I focus more on my own strat/scheme and don't really care what I'm up against. doesn't mean stuff doesn't cross my mind. I'm playing guild this year, and when I know I'm going to want to play Hoffman on this particular day, and my opponent says they're running outcasts or archanists... I know it could get pretty messy. Doesn't change anything, but crosses my mind all the same.

The only thing I would change is if my opponent declares Neverborne, I will leave papa loco in the case. really anything with low low WP. against anything with good wp duals they are risky.. but the NB have so many masters that love the WP models that they become a liability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm wondering how people can even think to ignore enemy faction... To me it's probably a 60/40 split between Strats/Enemy faction.

When going against Arcanists, don't take a Pandora horror list, or hanged, because Frozen Heart can destroy you.

When going against Guild in turf war, make sure you can survive a Ml7 Nimble Df6 rail golem being shot from Hoffman's bubble.

When playing against Ressers, don't rely on models that require cheatable damage flips to excel, such as the Valedictorian or Large Arachnid.

When you can reasonably expect armor, bring armor negation.

Against guild, bring something that can assassinate Sonnia in every list (because seriously, an unchecked Sonnia is just pure BS)

Yes, I know you like that 10 point glass cannon, but seriously, the Gremlins are just going to Dumb Luck and one shot it.

Don't take Metal gamin or rail workers against Outcasts, they are sitting ducks.

Etc etc...

Am I really just overthinking it? I just think losing at the list building phase is completely avoidable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're overthinking some of it.  For example outside of a Raspy crew very little has frozen heart so that's not a good reason to completely change your list if you run Pandy or tanked Hanged (you can still take half their life!).  She is only one out of a possible seven Masters.  Same for Hoffman (though he is good in Turf War).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not saying you should build your list entirely around your opponent, but a little bit of awareness can completely change the course of a game. Knowing that you might go against Hoffman, you could choose to take 2 Metal gamin for magnetism. They won't be useless against Perdita or anyone else though. On the other hand against Outcasts it's much more likely that those metal gamin will do nothing but die (Levi or Viks) so it may be smarter to take something else, despite it still bring turf war.

A small change in list building like this could completely swing a game. I feel that way at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not saying you should build your list entirely around your opponent, but a little bit of awareness can completely change the course of a game. Knowing that you might go against Hoffman, you could choose to take 2 Metal gamin for magnetism. They won't be useless against Perdita or anyone else though. On the other hand against Outcasts it's much more likely that those metal gamin will do nothing but die (Levi or Viks) so it may be smarter to take something else, despite it still bring turf war.

A small change in list building like this could completely swing a game. I feel that way at least.

I think this is a better way of articulating it.  The previous post seemed like you were suggesting designing the whole crew on the off chance that you may face something.  Definitely pays to take into account the opposing factions main strengths for sure though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Guild - shooty! Everybody get dawn! Also burn-burn-Sonnia.
Ressers - Rise, my Darlings! Also more meat for the Grinder.
Arcanists! Argh! Bring out the Hammer of Justice (and compete with their Hammers maybe)! It's Hammer time!
Neverborn - Nature strikes back. Need strength of will. Funky.
Outcasts - when I finally get your cheese, i will make a lazanya from it! Don't bring armor or expect to live here too long.
Gremlins - kaboom! Rednecks, pigs. Freaking lucky boomsticks.
Ten Thunders - get ready for some Kung-Fu-Fightin'... Good speed, range. Lower power level, more finesse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

The key thing I think about is who will be their main scheme runners and how can I smack them? So for Rezers, I'll think crooligans (high defense), Neverborn maybe terror tots (hugely fast - can I catch them?) and so on. Given that you mostly win by getting your scheme points and denying your opponent, that wins you games.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information