What do you think when your opponent declares a faction?

[CanYaDigIT]

We all know that malifaux i a very dynamic game even in a competitive setting. You have to choose a faction and then see what the strat and schemes are before you can even pick  your crew.

 

How much does the opponent's faction choice effect your crew choice. For example, if they are resser do you pick stuff to go against crooligans or necropunks? Do you take a taylor to combat a summoner? In a competetive setting how much of your crew is predetermined because of the start and schemes and how much depend on the faction you are playing against? Has these assumptions ever backfired?

 

Thanks for your input.

[MasterDisaster]

If I hear Ressers I immediate grab some condition removal. If I hear Arcanists I bring along a Relic Hammer (Often Johan so I can get some condition removal as well) but generally I tend to play what I think will bag me the most points or what I feel will be the most fun. It is a game after all and fun is the primary aim of any game. 

[Sybarite]

If I hear ressers or neverborn I strongly consider bringing condition removal. 

[D-solad0r]

Against Outcast, I evade using armour.

Condition Removal... I always use it (Johan or Chiaki)

[decker_cky]

If I hear ressers or arcanists, as an arcanist, I strongly consider me, so she can bring Kang. Against arcanists, it's always worth considering metal gamin if you can take them.

[CanYaDigIT]

Do you take particular things to counter the strats depending on faction?

[Hateful Darkblack]

Honestly, I spend more effort picking a crew for the strat and schemes than my opponent's faction. It's so easy to misguess based on faction, so usually when I try to hire pieces that counter what I think the enemy Crew will be, I find himself getting too clever. It's generally better to hire models you know well, that can handle a variety of situations.

 

That said, here are the usual things I expect:

Guild: A lot of shooting, probably all living or a mix of living/construct.

Resser: Undead and summoning, probably Poison.

Arcanist: Probably Constructs.

Neverborn: Probably fast melee models, probably a lot of Wp-based attacks.

Outcasts: Probably some shooting. Probably strong activation control.

Gremlins: Probably some shooting, probably mostly living models.

Ten Thunders: Really well-painted models. That's about it.

[rythos42]

I'm with Hateful, there's too much to think about on my own end, let alone theirs as well.

 

At the same time, there are a few models that I like that cover a few bases -- like if my opponent declares Neverborn, in my area they are probably playing Lynch so I should probably bring Sue against Huggy. Some of the same models in this thread too -- http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/107380-mercenaries-youre-playing/ -- like Johan(na) is a strong model against a good number of possible Resser/Arcanist/Outcast that it's hard not to bring her.

 

Gremlins I think "oh hell, I've never played against Gremlins, what do I do?!"

 

Resser I think "...again...?" And bring Kang.

[Adran]

I agree, I generally make almost no adaptation based on their faction.

i think that s because I couldn't say what I'd play in their place, and I'm much better off playing a generally strong list, rather than gambling on thier list and hoping for a counter.

 

If I knew the master, that might be different, or if I knew the player well enough to make a guess at the master, but against an unknown player, just havign the faction probably won't change anything.

 

Even going  "Ressurectionist -  I want condition removal", is more than I do. Poison is only really an issue with McMorning, Hanged condition is only an issue if I have models that heal, and I guess there are a few horror duels out there to paralyse me, but probabbly on my own turn, where condition removal doesn't really work.

[moxypoo]

Hateful Darkblack is correct in my opinion; it seems to be better to tailor your list to the objectives at hand and use models that you know well than attempt to guess what your opponent is going to bring.  There are some general things you can almost always expect like ranged models with Guild, but beyond that, I think it's too risky to guess what your opponent will bring.  Of course, if you know the player well then you can make some good guesses what he'll bring (my Arcanist friend uses Ramos almost exclusively for Reconnoiter, for example).

 

My mentality is that no plan survives contact with the enemy, so I want to bring a crew that can complete my objectives with minimal interaction with the enemy crew, while disrupting my opponent's plans so they score 1VP less than me.  For this reason, I tend to gravitate towards control crews since they make it easy to run the game at the pace you want.

[SpiralngCadavr]

A little tech against stuff- I might bring kang or a relic hammer against arcanists, judge against ressers or outcasts, etc. I don't overspecialize since it'll either get slaughter-y or be ineffective both of which aren't fun. 

 

I only lightly tailor forces to opponents, mostly just to my master and to the objectives or trying a new piece out.

[decker_cky]

There's a few models that are going to be great for a tailored list (eg, Kang vs. Ressers). But overall, that's a nice little perk, while what you need to do to win is focus on strategies and schemes. 

[Whut]

If I hear Guild or Gremlins I immediately take some protection against shooting - especially Malifaux Raptors and a Cerberus or Howard to get up and assassinate the threat.

[zFiend]

Guild: blegh, Perdita..

Arcanists: The Filth train cometh choo choo.

Gremlins: if it's Ophelia this is gonna hurt.

Outcasts: If it's Vikkies I'm out.

Neverborn: Yay I get to kill a teddy.

Ten Thunders: Who's it gonna be?

Rezzers: Ffs if there's Hanged around.

That's what I think when I hear the faction. Other than that I just make my own list of models I feel like playing that day regardless of countering.

[PraetorDragoon]

"ah, no. Not Guild again..."

 

Other than that, I personally don't care what faction they declare. I usually go for stuff I like anyway, focussing on schemes and strategies. 

[Absolution Black]

If its Ressers, I get my gas mask!

 

But on a serious note I am like Praetor, I tend to pick in terms of schemes and strategies rather than try and optimize against the opponents faction.  Besides I am a theme bunny anyway so half the lists I pick aren't optimal anyway..

[jonahmaul]

Another +1 to choosing models for strats/schemes.  If I'm playing against Arcanists I'll usually try to have some sort of ignoring armour and against Neverborn I try to include high Wp models or ways or ignoring Wp duels (or just a lot of my own stuff that forces Wp duels) but as has been stated, second guessing what your opponent will bring and deciding on your crew based on that means that you might not be optimizing it for the strats/schemes which is much more important.

[bertmac]

Ha i remember playing arcanists vs jonahmauls ressers him taking a student of steel that was going kill all my constructs, my living gunsmith shot it in the face with an rj on the damage oh how i laughed!

[D_acolyte]

I here ten thunders and I think "so it going to be an obscure hogpog of a crew to abuse some strange synergy based on what they think I will do or it is a crew of another faction", I even play 10 thunders and I think that about mine. Example Lynch with addict and Kang both affecting an illuminated get stupid vs ressers.

Arc = armor or hard to kill or both (so much tanking so little time)

res = numbers

neverborn = will duals and speed

guild = McCabe or the Ortagas

outcast = resers by a different name, crazy stuff, or the shirt comes off

Gremlin is a lot of shooting and pigs for MI

[SpectreEliteGaming]

Ooo this sounds like fun - I want to play!

These are thoughts in a vacuum without consideration of scheme/strat pool.

As a Levy/Daw/Schill (Tara?) player... I've dabbled with others but honestly I barely get any games in as is to try to learn others right now:

Guild: ezmode? >8) Construct Levy - extra emphasis on rushing them with something fast or shooty and flex some out activation.

Arcanists: Fuuuuuuuuuu... why am I not playing arcanists? :/ Standard play and hope for the best - Johan w/ Daw. I dun like Ramos - maybe bring Joss - just for the lulz.

Ressers: Auto-Summoner Levy w/Alyce and put lots of pressure on the master (not necessarily to kill but to keep busy).

Neverborn: Probably go with a Schill hit squad unless the pool prevents it or makes it difficult. Bring some beefy pewpew.

Mirror: Probably gonna be Levy - if its not Levy then I don't care - standard build with maybe some faster and probably beefier models. I'd take Daw here if I could manage it.

Gremlins: I really want to start playing gremlins Just bully them pretty standard build - Outcasts have good game against grems. Bring Ama?

10T: Meh. Standard play. Everything you can do I can do better, I can do anything better than you.

[NeilH]

Ha i remember playing arcanists vs jonahmauls ressers him taking a student of steel that was going kill all my constructs, my living gunsmith shot it in the face with an rj on the damage oh how i laughed!

[NeilH]

Muhahahaha

[Philosfr]

I'll echo the thoughts of others. I don't usually consider the opponents faction very strongly in my crew choice. That's one of the things I like about Malifaux over some other games... hard counters are nearly non-existent.

 

I will consider a model or an upgrade based on faction, but most models and upgrades have other uses to consider them anyway. Condition removal is nearly always useful and every faction can generally apply conditions. I might avoid bringing along terror tots against a Guild player due to the Austringer, but that may be more personal bad luck than wise strategy. 

 

Usually I have a pretty solid crew foundation in mind before I even know my opponent or the strategy, much less picking specifically. Usually crew synergy seems to win more games than specifically building for a certain strategy.

[CanYaDigIT]

Crews have synergy, but every master has that synergy. Can Seamus win reconnoiter, sure. Can Molly or Nico win a reckoning, of course. Is it hard to win with those masters based on there nature, uh huh. If you go into a match, with a master and core group already picked out, chances are you are setting yourself up for disaster. Malifaux isnt about a list.

[Ferossa]

I think that licking the tears from their face is frowned upon and that I probably shouldn't do it, even if it's very tempting at the time.