Shenlong advice

[Jewomie]

I found a couple bits here and there, and a thread that was started just about a year ago, but for the most part things seem a little on the quiet side for Shenlong. Sensei Yu is another story I suppose.

 

So, as I am pouring through these other topics and have read the pull my finger article a few times I just had  a quick question for you all.

 

Any quick tips that you wish you had known for Shenlong before your first game with him? I'm trying him out for the first time on Wednesday, and while I have found a wealth of info, having not had him on the table yet, it's still all kind of just words. lol.

 

So, What is something you wish you knew before he hit the table the first time?

[scarlett fever]

Played Shenlong about 7-8 times now and still loose a bit with him.

He does like gunlines, which feels odd, but I always take a Sniper, get it within Yu and Shen's bubbles and it's 2 focus shots at +1 Sh.

You want to start with the Wandering River upgrade on him and disciple on Yu, first turn get your positioning sorted, first Shen then Yu. With interact Strats and schemes you should be all positioned by the end of turn one, as this is where he gets the jump on most other crews. With Mighty Gust make sure you're getting focus from somewhere before you start (peasents, Shens 0, Airburst, knowing the wind and stone). Mighty Gust is amazing, blowing scheme markers around is great to get your schemes but also for general denial.

The main thing I find is to try to keep track of your bubbles and push lanes. You want to keep your models near to get all the buffs but you don't want to be locking yourself up between your own models and terrain, in a board with a lot of scatter terrain this can be really tricky.

Always start with one peasent and witness a miracle another.

I often find I'm swapping between Wandering River and Low River and work up to High River once or twice turn 3-5, I'm yet to use Fermented River.

There are so many little tricks it's hard to remember the right one at the right time, a very dense Master, read your cards well!

And don't forget Shen's free 0 after initiative!

[noob]

SF, thank you!  I will be playing with him soon and your input put to voice a lot of what I was thinking to do with him but terrified that I was reading it all wrong and forgetting more than I knew

[Duront]

I have played a good amount of Shenlong and I think he is a fantastic master can support different playstyles. One thing I will mention is I feel like sensei Yu costs way too much and doesn't add anything in the crew. He is 11 stones with the upgrade which you almost have to take, half of his mechanics are on that card. For that you get airburst, a meh attack (that has no charge) and some focus interaction tricks. Shenlong can already Mighty Gust people and it is better than airburst due to instant plant explosive/spring the trap usage. The upgrade switching between shenlong and sensei doesn't really work out that great evem with the weasel giving out heals and pushes. So the only thing you are missing is the lower focus to get free interacts which for 11 stones I am fine with skipping. Shenlong is such a strong support master that he really doesn't need more support elements, he needs damage guys like Swordsmen, Snipers, Izamu, Rail Workers, etc.

 

One build I am excited to try now that the emissary is stabilized is Drinky Shenlong, where you take fermented style, the emissary, ferm river monks, dawn serpent and a performer and just do crazy poison tricks. 

[scarlett fever]

That's interesting, I should really try running Shenlong without Yu, I get a bit fixated on him. I can see he could perhaps cost a point less.

I like the idea of Drunk Shenlong, that would be really fun to try out.

 

I actually run Yu in a lot of my lists outside of Shenlong, I especially like him with Misaki.

 

Obviously we have very different play styles but there's a lot I like about Yu. Airburst is different to Mighty Gust in that you can use it at a greater range and then get a focus from that to use on Mighty Gust to give someone Fast. His Wk 7 is pretty crazy and great for things like turn 5 entourage.

His attack is pretty lacklustre, unless its against a model that relies on defensive triggers. Against many Masters he's actually quite threatening, Colette is normally pretty much invincible, but Yu can dismantle her easily.

 

The ability to basically double Shenlong's influence I really like, a whole turn of those two healing models can be impressive and it's nice to be able to split the bubble. But you do have to watch the switching of upgrades, don't get Yu to use Disciple to switch to an upgrade that Shenlong is carrying, you won't do that more than once...

[noob]

Ok, NS and SF, can you both elaborate on the last paragraph of your previous posts?

The poison stuff with Shen scares me kinda since it's poison and I don't really know how that combo you were talking about would work and then the uses of Yu with ShenLong, SF.

 

I'm interested in all the input that you can give on those

[Duront]

Sorry noob,

 

My vision of Drunk Shenlong is a two step process, applying poison and exploiting poison.

 

Applying Models:

Fermented river monks punch you with liquor that gives you poison

Dawn Serpent melee applies poison on melee

 

Exploiting Models:

Emmisary can use a dragon fang that makes enemies tick 1 more damage per poision

Performer has a "lure" that can make people damage equal to poison count

 

Shenlong sets up the combo by mighty gusting people into position or taking fermented style and using stumble to make all of the Poison attacks hit easier.

 

This is a super rough idea but could be cool. 

[scarlett fever]

Apologies, I'll elaborate. Shenlongs 'Monk of Many Styles' allows him to swap between his different limited Upgrades, each time he discards an Upgrade Sensei Yu's 'Journeyman of the Four Styles' allows Yu to attach the discarded Upgrade.

Sometimes I use Yu's 'Disciple' to get him to use Shenlongs 'Monk of Many Styles' and swap Upgrades. But if Yu uses this Action to swap to an Upgrade that Shenlong is carrying Shenlong now has no Upgrades attached and can no longer discard an Upgrade to attach another, therefore looses access to his Upgrades for the rest of the game.

This also makes him vulnerable to Models like Hans who can get rid of attached Upgrades.

[Duront]

The more I play shenlong the more I feel that the secret to him is knowing when to switch styles. Having a free zero at the beginning to either build condition stacks or get a clutch focus for mighty gust. Shenlongs attacks depend heavily on having a stack of poison or burning so you end up playing cagey turn 1 and 2 gusting people or healing where needed. Then when 3 comes around you can rush in with fermented river and stumble everyone to have them be - flips, this allows you to hit with your heavy models and ensure you nail them for max damage. Then next turn switch to High River and finish of people with the burning stacks, using the ability to swing the opposed duels by taking some damage.

 

And all of that is just one approach to the timing of when to switch styles or build up conditions. You can build up burning just to use it for Words on the River if you wanted or use him more like Tara by getting heavy hitters in place with Fast by using Mighty Gust on 2 - 3 assassins. The sniper list has also seen really good play in reckoning/ killy games.

[tomjoad]

I've only got one game with Shenlong so far, but he immediately became my favorite master. Wandering River made marker based schemes so easy to complete, and Fermented River was a bit of an offensive powerhouse. I was playing against Sonnia, so I was wary about adding Burning to myself, but Fermented River Style makes it so easy to get  to damage that I didn't mind losing out on High River.

 

I'm super excited to get some more games this week and refine my Shenlong mastery.

[papa smurf]

Little known fact which people should always do. When using the peasants to provide for the temple 0 action focus first. Doing so increases your chances of not failing. Cause if you are like me you will fail that 5 more than just once in a blue moon. Added benefit If Yu is around you only need a 4.....

Speaking of Yu he is amazing for 11 stones. Okay to be honest he should only cost like 9 maybe 10 with upgrade. The guy is huge and can walk super fast. But can't charge. But he does do schemes super easily. Drop marker walk lower focus drop marker. Entourage. Breakthrough. Cursed object. distract. He does that extremely well. All while supporting Shenlong and crew with pushes and depending on style more pushes or healing etc. So by no means is he a waste of stones. But 10 wounds df6 is not the most resilient thing. But he can use ss.

Usually when I play Shenlong him and most of his crew is 10" up field he or Yu is fast as are his crew. A samurai of jingoku is nothing to snear at when he is fast focused and gets 85 . With some decent rams you can pepper 2-3 models to death. A fast reactivating Lone Swordsman nukes anything that you want it to. Especially if you discard recalled training.

I have had some moderate use of blot the sky with 1 or two archers and with (0) focus it is not to shabby.

But Shenlong can be taken in any strategy with any scheme and not suffer from being a one trick pony. He can easily nuke a master down with his basic melee specially when you make them unable to use soulstones. And if you shut down (0) actions also most masters like their 0s.

[mrTade]

Hey guys,

 

i'm playing Shen too. My experieneces:

- Yu is so awsome, and i like him, but that smile doesnt earn 9-11ss. Coz Shens power to convert his ap-s into 2ap (push+fast), u need some dude, who can use it well. And dats not another support. Sorry Yu, i still like u, dont worry.

- Fuhatsu. Shen cant push him, but he is nearly immortal and dat moderate 5 dmg on sh6 is amamzing. With recalled training...

- The Lone Swordsman. Favorite. Amazing triggers, fast and freefocus with reactivate and recalled training. Im not joking, he can kill anything.

- Ama no Zako. He is the one, who can force the fuhatsu to walk. And he is worth his 9ss + Recalled training.

- Katanaka. Can be good. 1 piece of this can do 2 focused shot with shen. U can use 2 of them too. But if someone block ur los, u are  f*ked up. He can do melee and slowdart, he can be awsome, but need to know when to use him.

- Recalled training is op. Use it.

 

- i use 1 peasant, but im not sure in its worth yet.

- Yamaziko and oiran(or other lastblossom) combo can be good, u can pick smoke and shadows to block los. Im trying this now.

- I dont like monks, but honest, i dont even used them.

- Ototo can be good, idk.

- I used just wandering and low river, i dont had a chance to try the others, coz i use shen as support.

- I dont like samurai. Its a miniFuhatsu, just dont worth 8ss even with 0ss upgrades.

 

And one more thing. Fear the blast. Ur 6' everything want u to stay in group. Well... it can be a very very bad ending.

 

If i play more, as is plan, sure it will be change in some facts. But now, this is what i can tell u.

 

Br.

tD

[clockworkspide]

The thing with Samurai is that they can fight back if they get engaged, unlike Fuhatsu who has to hope no one red jokers their Madman With a Gatling Gun WP duel, because he has no melee and only DF 4, making disengaging problematic.

[tomjoad]

I still haven't tried him, but between Sensei Yu and Shenlong with Wandering River Style, I don't imagine you'll have TOO hard of a time getting Fuhatsu out of an engagement, right? And then sometimes you get fast out of the deal, too!

[admiralvorkraft]

Fuhatsu has an ability called Braced that says (paraphrasing) that he may only be moved by his own Walk actions so the pushes from Wandering River won't do anything. You may still be able to give him Fast though...

[scarlett fever]

Interesting to come back to this thread.

I've gone from seldom winning with Shenlong to seldom losing, in fact I recently won a small tournament with him.

 

Starting to agree with Nschweir over Yu's cost and the fact he can take the punch out of your list. He still makes it into schemy lists and is a great candidate for entourage or bodyguard, but otherwise there's generally a better option. Snipers and the Swordsman make it into most lists.

 

Finally using fermented style, which is amazing if the enemy is clustered together later in the game. With Shenlong's Mastery action I find I'm stacking either burning or poison from early on so as my opponents get used to playing against him I wonder if they'll pick up on this telegraphing of my intentions. Have to be careful not to go defensive stance whilst in fermented style though!

 

The best thing about Shenlong is he never feels under par for any strategy/scheme combo.

[tomjoad]

Using Yu in conjunction with Shenlong is something I am a big advocate of. Having Mighty Gust on Shen and Airburst on Yu gives the crew such maneuverability that it almost feels unfair. It's true that, because he has no charge and costs over 20% of your total crew, Yu can feel like he is reducing your over all killing power. However, the models that I most want to use for killing are either very slow (Izamu), or would prefer not moving at all (Katanaka Sniper) or just don't need help from anybody (Illuminated). Yu + Shen adds so much to the speed of the slower models, and so much to the repositioning ability of other models (I'd also add samurai, Yin, and The Lone Swordsman here) that I think his very high expenditure still adds to the net killy-ness of the crew.

 

As well, both Yu and Shen, while it may feel like overkill, combine to allow you to use one to help you murder your foes, and one can focus on supporting the scheme runners. Not to mention the extreme utility of having multiple models that can easily heal 4 wounds with a single AP, which can keep a relatively vulnarable model like the Swordsman in combat for an extra turn.

 

I have tried Shenlong without Yu (using Toshiro instead to still help buff minions and obviously to summon) and it was, frankly, a mess. Part of it is that I am so used to using Yu, I'm sure, but relying on Shenlong for all the movement shenanigans that I'd been used to felt like I wasn't getting the most out of the crew. Also, I tend to play Shenlong in a way that leaves killing as a secondary or tertiary concern. If the strategy or schemes are going to emphasize killing a lot, or if there aren't any interact based schemes that I think I can do based on the terrain or whatever, that's when I take Jakob Lynch, who is just much better at murdering his foes than I find Shenlong to be.

[boots468]

Played Shenlong about 7-8 times now and still loose a bit with him.

He does like gunlines, which feels odd, but I always take a Sniper, get it within Yu and Shen's bubbles and it's 2 focus shots at +1 Sh.

 

I've seen this a few times, but surely the sniper would only get to make one shot with focus? It would be at focus +2, but the focus condition is removed rather than reduced when you use it.

 

I've only got one game in with Shenlong (lost badly to death bubble Pandora), and I feel he's a master it'll take a while to get the hang of. Many options and tricks, and not amazing at killing or tanking either. Sidir seemed to work well with him (Shenlong likes being in the Promises bubble, Sidir likes pushes from friendlies and a (0) to use when not yet hurt), and being able to give Recalled Training and Servant of Five Dragons to Yu after they were discarded from Shenlong annoyed my opponent no end :-)

[Shadowfane]

I've seen this a few times, but surely the sniper would only get to make one shot with focus? It would be at focus +2, but the focus condition is removed rather than reduced when you use it.

 

I've only got one game in with Shenlong (lost badly to death bubble Pandora), and I feel he's a master it'll take a while to get the hang of. Many options and tricks, and not amazing at killing or tanking either. Sidir seemed to work well with him (Shenlong likes being in the Promises bubble, Sidir likes pushes from friendlies and a (0) to use when not yet hurt), and being able to give Recalled Training and Servant of Five Dragons to Yu after they were discarded from Shenlong annoyed my opponent no end :-)

 

1. Peasant gives focus to Sniper.

2. Sniper uses first AP to shoot with focus.

3. Sniper Focuses as a 0 action due to being near Shenlong.

4. Sniper shoots again with last AP and focus!

5. Do the whole thing again with second peasant and second sniper.

6. Profit!