Phinn Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 So far I have played only a few games. I have found a lot of information about models I own, either here on the forum or on PullMyFinger website. The problem is, that I haven't found a lot of information about some upgrades. I would like to ask you, if you would be so nice and help me with them. Here is the list of models, that I own: Ophelia LaCroix Young LaCroix (3) Francois LaCroix Raphael LaCroix Rami LaCroix Pere Ravage Slop Hauler (2) The Guardian Stone Cost: 1 SS ► This model gains the follow Ability:Echo of Souls: When this model is targeted by an Action it may spend a Soulstone and flip a card to increase its Df and Wp for the remainder of the duel. If a 0-5 is flipped the model gains +1, if a 6-10 is flipped the model gains +2, if an 11 to 14 is flipped the model gains +3. This may not increase the model’s Df or Wp above 8. ► This model gains the following Tactical Action:(0) Moment of Insight: This model may discard this Upgrade to push up to 4” in any direction. Restrictions: Leader When do you, if ever, take this upgrade? It costs 1 SS to purchase, it occupies your Leader's upgrade slot and you have to pay additional SS for every duel you want to enhance by Echo of Souls. An average gain to Df and Wp is 1,83 for a Leader that has 5 Df and 5 Wp. Leaders that have more than that (Ophelia LaCroix has Df 6 and Wp 6) benefit from it even less, because those stats can't be increased above 8. For 1 SS you can just enhance the duel and add to your Defense Flip and to relevant damage flip. In The Exact Value of a Positive Twist Math Mathonwy stated that: "a single positive twist is about as good as +2 to the stat." Does the (0) Moment of Insight outweights this? Show Off Cost: 1 SS ► Other friendly Gremlin models within LoS of this model may take the following Tactical Action:(2) Ya’ll Watch This (Ca 4 / TN: 12 / Rg: 2): All models in range suffer 3 damage. Sacrifice this model. Restrictions: Gremlin, Rare 1 Do I own any models that would benefit from this upgrade? I almost always use theese upgrades: Francois LaCroix - Dirty Cheater and Stilts Raphael LaCroix - Dirty Cheater Pere Ravage - Team Work (if I have some SS left) Should I switch one of those upgrades? Dirty Cheater on Raphael LaCroix is in my opinion an autoinclude thanks to Hard to Kill and Fueled by Panic. Francois LaCroix is usually in the thick of things (Sorry, if I used that term wrong.) so Dirty Cheater seems like a great upgrade for him and I use Stilts to mitigate damage from his automatic Dumb Luck trigger on (1) Dueling Sword. Models left are: Ophelia LaCroix Rami LaCroix When do you use this Upgrade? Is it with Somm'er's Summoning Factory Inc. or is it any particular Strategy or Scheme or... Team Work Cost: 1 SS ► This model gains the following Ability:Gimme a Boost: Friendly Gremlin models in base contact with this model are treated as Ht 2 when drawing LoS to targets. ► This model gains the following Tactical Action:(1) The Real Lacroix: Place this model in base contact with target enemy model within 6” that is engaged with a friendly Gremlin model. Then, push one friendly Gremlin model engaged with the target model up to 6” directly away from the target model. Restrictions: Kin, Rare 3 As I already said, I use this upgrade only when I have some SS left and put it on Pere Ravage. The same questions. Should I try it on another model? When do you use this upgrade? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 All the Stone upgrades (there is one for each faction) are pretty terrible. Echo of souls is the worst, some of the 0 actions are ok, but they take an upgrade slot on the leader and most Masters have like 5 really good upgrades that you want to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorschlag Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Show off is great with Somer especially against crews boasting allot of hard to wound and/or ethereal models. I probably wouldn't take it outside of a summoning crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Team Work might be nice on Francois? Sort of a poor Gremlin's Enfrante a mi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidd Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 An average gain to Df and Wp is 1,83 for a Leader that has 5 Df and 5 Wp. Leaders that have more than that (Ophelia LaCroix has Df 6 and Wp 6) benefit from it even less, because those stats can't be increased above 8. You're right, but there are effects that lower willpower/defense. Is that worth a soulstone for the upgrade and a soulstone per use? I doubt it. You've pointed out yourself that if you lose the duel anyway, you don't get the on any damage flip. As for Show Off, I think it's suitable for a list with more disposable units. If you're not taking Somer but your list includes several of the Kin, you mightn't have the points to spare. I can't imagine it's more useful than your typical upgrades unless the strategy/schemes provide a benefit to denying your own units. Pere Ravage mightn't be the best owner of Team Work, though, considering he has a large charge range. I can see the logic behind it, though. Replace something you don't want to be engaged with something that explodes when it dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 The stones are all unpopular. Personally I look at the 0 action and decide it that is worht my SS. And if I feel it is, and my leader has an upgrade space left, I might take it. So for the Gremlins, you are lookin for a leader that really doesn't want to be in melee, and has the spare 0 action to gt out of combat. Thats almost certainly not Ophelia. Show off looks like it is perfect for lists with lots of gremlins. If you are fieldign 10+ bayou gremlins, then it is lookign a lot better. For a kin list, its almost certainly not the thing you want. Team work looks good at getting 1 gremlin unengaged. I would consider somethign that is good in close combat having it, so probably Francois. Do you find Raphael is constantly beign engaged to stop him? or even your scheem runners being stopped by being engaged? if so, this is not a bad way to free them. I wpouldn't put it in every list, but it certainly has some use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedoc Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 never take it but there are those instances when you are facing an auto lose duel vs a model with higher or equal base stat and he's holding the same high cards as you to cheat. If you really cant afford to have your leader paralyzed, expunged, obeyed etc then maybe its worth it. Positive flip in these cases don't really help unless you top deck the red joker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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