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Getting the most out of the Pigapult


Malal

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I've got a couple of games coming up where I can see the 'pult being really useful (namely vs Levi and Sonnia), my problem is fitting it in the crew plus it's ammo tends to leave me very few resources left to complete strats/schemes.

 

Vs Levi, I'm thinking of using it for Waif hunting so the normal Sh 6 min damage 2 piglet shots will be what I want.

Vs. Sonnia, I see the 'pult going for her early game so the Sh 5 min damage 3 stuffed piglet shots should be ok.

 

So what do you folks do to mitigate the cost or do you just accept it and build the list around the 'pult?

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Generally speaking the Pigapult is most effective when paired up with Som'er and Lenny with his I'll Love It and Pet It... upgrade. A slop Hauler helps as well though isn't strictly necessary.

 

Som'er is there to provide Lenny with a guarantied Tomes from Do It Like Dis! to insure his Huh, It Survived trigger. Lenny attacks the Pigapult with Whacked Piglet having it chose to lose the Duel (Page 33 of the M2e book). This guaranties the hit and increases the odds of that Weak damage flip for the free summoned piglet. With the Pigapult's Armor 5 it will only be taking 1 Damage per turn for its ammo generation. Coupled with Reckless and another point of damage it will be able to attack 3 times at max effectiveness (Bacon Barrages at Sh 6, :ranged 24 that doesn't require LOS and ignores Cover). Though a Slop Hauler isn't strictly necessary for healing (Bacon Load does have a Healing benefit built in) it does assist with keeping the Pigapult alive if an opponent chooses to focus on removing it.

 

Wong and the Stuffed Piglets have some neat interactions with it as well though I think utilizing the Pigapult at max effectiveness is best facilitated with the above grouping. As a benefit the models required (with the exception of the Pigapult) are models that are staples of a Som'er "Summon Factory" list anyways so dont require an excessive expenditure of resources.

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Even without somer Lenny has (I think) something like a 60% chance on starting with a card to summon a piglet. Bringing old cranky or going later in the round will help to (or hinder depending how many 7+tomes get pulled).

Ulix can also summon in piglets and is good with the pult.

Taxidermist can also technically summon later in the match

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I have seen the pult do decently with Zoraida before if she also took Papa Loco.  She had obeyed the pigapult to give it a focus for its first shot and had Papa loco activate first to do his "Hold This" on it so it had a positive to damage.  The person had one piglet and one stuffed Piglet to serve as ammo as they felt they only really needed 2 turns with it.  As Papa went to do other stuff it only really took 14ss of his list and it did a reasonable amount of damage with just those two turns of real ammo.  Thanks to that Positive from Papa it was able to cheat with the normal Piglet for the moderate 4 and more likely to flip better damage with the stuffed piglet.  It also shot the Voodoo Doll once after it got summoned so that the enemy that got Hemmed could get Paralyze.  Zoraida might not be able to do the substainable launch system that Lenny adds but she can have the options to try and make the most of its limited ammo *unless you take Lenny too*.

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From what I saw I would say it is a hard call and one you make per strategy and schemes.  One of the options we had discussed was having a full 4 stuffed piglets in the list.  The first one is for ammo while the rest can serve other purposes.  With the stuffed piglets it helps for jocking for out activation on turn 1 and 2 while still having some options.  One idea we discussed was launching the other three stuffed piglets so they land all around a key model or a grouping and then have Papa Loco move up and do his tactical action that sets off his explosion.  Suddenly you are looking at taking 3 stuffed piglet blasts and then likely Papa Loco's.  Combined with semi-percise sniping of the pult before hand and you could be looking at having taken a serious chunk out of the enemy crew.

 

Personally I would not likely buff it up any further save maybe one more stuffed piglet as I would rather have those soulstones to stuff like Francios or Raphael which could be pretty nasty with Papa Loco's positive to damage as well.  I would rather have papa buff the pult first turn, have it take its first round of shots, activate it early second turn to use the buff again, then activate Papa so that he can give the buff to someone like Raphael, Francios, or Gracie to make them scary for the turn.

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I was listening to someone talk about using Stuffed Piglets to deliver Killjoy via Launchin' (or Lenny's toss), which seems like a decent way of surgically delivering killyness to the enemy's side of the table.

 

I do have to say, however, that this thread is the exact reason why I don't like the Pig-a-Pault. The core mechanic of it is fairly solid: use a really awesome gun for the cost of a 2-4 stone model per activation. Unfortunately, Gremlins have enough summoning that people see this as an excuse to try and cheat it into getting free ammo. This doesn't cost Ulix a whole lot if he's planning on summoning anyway, but it does mean he has to remain close enough to the 'Pault to get the pigs there on time. Lenny can make sure you have pigs, but you need to keep him within 10 inches and in LoS to do it, and you need that tome to do it. Do you really want to be using Sommer's 0 action to guarantee Lenny gets a tome? The Pig-a-Pault, in many cases, convinces people to bloat their list with support models, and to keep those support models in the back lines, where they can't add as much to the scenario. Is the gun awesome enough to counterbalance that? I don't know.

 

Because it is an *awesome* gun. There's exactly no way to counter-play it. It ignores all the normal limiting factors of a gun (its range is enormous, it ignores LOS and cover). Seeing it across the table, really the only thing that you can do is clench up and make peace with the fact that the stuff you want shot the least is going to be shot between six and fifteen times over the course of the game. I don't like that the only really effective play against against it is "kill the thing in the enemy deployment zone that you will not have LoS to".

 

TL;DR- I don't like the PaP because it tempts people to bloat their lists with support and it denies the opponent the ability make good plays against it. Regardless of whether or not it is good, it promotes lazy play.

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Keep in mind that Som'er doesn't have to use his 0 action Do It Like Dis! to provide the :Tomes for Lenny, Skeeters can do that just as easily. With a Som'er crew in particular I am not sure why you think it requires so much support to fuel it effectively. Lenny is all that is really required and perhaps a Slop Hauler. Both of these are going to be in a standard Summon Factory list anyways and performing the same function regardless. Additionally, neither Som'er, Lenny or the Slop Hauler is meant to go after objectives in that list. Lastly, there will be plenty of Bayou Gremlin's and extra Piglets running around achieving objectives and blocking lanes to the Pigapult and summoners. The Pigapult is primarily acting as a "Sniper" Weapon even more so if throwing some Encouragement its way.

 

It is good but hardly game breaking. There is a lot worse out there.

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Keep in mind that Som'er doesn't have to use his 0 action Do It Like Dis! to provide the :Tomes for Lenny, Skeeters can do that just as easily. With a Som'er crew in particular I am not sure why you think it requires so much support to fuel it effectively. Lenny is all that is really required and perhaps a Slop Hauler. Both of these are going to be in a standard Summon Factory list anyways and performing the same function regardless. Additionally, neither Som'er, Lenny or the Slop Hauler is meant to go after objectives in that list. Lastly, there will be plenty of Bayou Gremlin's and extra Piglets running around achieving objectives and blocking lanes to the Pigapult and summoners. The Pigapult is primarily acting as a "Sniper" Weapon even more so if throwing some Encouragement its way.

 

It is good but hardly game breaking. There is a lot worse out there.

 

Oh, I agree. My problem is not that it actually breaks the game or needs too much support to be an efficient, powerful weapon. My problem is:

 

A: it encourages people to bring along extra models to support it, and it keeps those models in or near the deployment zone. Not only does this lead to support bloat, but it is literally the least dynamic way to play a group of models.

 

B: there is no way to mitigate what it does from across the table. If your opponent is bringing a PaP, you pretty much shrug, accept you're going to take some shooting losses, and completely ignore it.

 

There is definitely worse stuff out there, but I challenge you to find something more boring.

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Out of curiosity have you actually played the Pigapult and Som'er summon factory?

 

It is far from a "Lazy way to play" it requires a lot of effort to keep going while also achieving objectives. A 6 for Sh is hardly game breaking or guarantied to hit even with Encouragement, especially those elite linchpin models that are its intended targets. It is also only 3 attack actions per turn and if the player isn't smart about usage or timing also makes it very susceptible to death from virtually any model hitting it late in the turn (unless that Slop Hauler is saved for last which makes the summoned models even easier to kill).

 

Weathering the storm, rushing to engage it (very easy if utilizing a model with From the Shadows) and killing the healer pulls its teeth fairly quickly. For the most part it is an "all or nothing" model.

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Out of curiosity have you actually played the Pigapult and Som'er summon factory?

 

It is far from a "Lazy way to play" it requires a lot of effort to keep going while also achieving objectives. A 6 for Sh is hardly game breaking or guarantied to hit even with Encouragement, especially those elite linchpin models that are its intended targets. It is also only 3 attack actions per turn and if the player isn't smart about usage or timing also makes it very susceptible to death from virtually any model hitting it late in the turn (unless that Slop Hauler is saved for last which makes the summoned models even easier to kill).

 

Weathering the storm, rushing to engage it (very easy if utilizing a model with From the Shadows) and killing the healer pulls its teeth fairly quickly. For the most part it is an "all or nothing" model.

 

I've played against it in an Ophelia and Lenny gunline and a Ulix summon factory. To be fair, in the Ulix game, it was mostly there to deep strike Piglets. Again, I'm not saying it breaks the game, only that, in the situations I've observed, it promotes play that I don't think is very much fun.

 

I also don't really think that its best targets are "elite lynchpins". Sh 6 is plenty high, especially if you are buffing it with someone, if you are aiming it at important but fragile stuff. Things that I don't bring against Gremlins because they are too vulnerable to the PaP include: the Viktorias, Leveticus, any totem, Void Wretches, and Freikorps Specialists. Anything with low Df or Wounds whose removal seriously impacts the crew is a liability against the PaP, and the gremlin player can simply build the rest of their crew to kill models with high defensive stats.

 

I have never been in a situation where the PaP could be engaged before turn three; in both games against it, there was blocking terrain on or near the enemy's deployment zone, so they just parked the PaP there. There is no reason to give the enemy LoS to it; everything you would use it for doesn't require it. I suppose, if you happen to have brought something with From the Shadows, you could try and run it into combat, but a canny opponent will simply use the rest of their crew to stall or kill your single rushing model. If all else fails, the thing is surrounded by pigs who could happily beat up a scout model before they get turned into ammo.

 

I also have never been in a game where healing was necessary for it. Versus Ophelia, the player brought ammo for it, and versus Ulix, he summoned it; every turn, it went Reckless, then healed with Bacon Load.

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I also don't really think that its best targets are "elite lynchpins". Sh 6 is plenty high, especially if you are buffing it with someone, if you are aiming it at important but fragile stuff. Things that I don't bring against Gremlins because they are too vulnerable to the PaP include: , Leveticus, any totem,

 

What exactly did you feel were the weak points for Levi crew, what would be the 'pults primary targets? 

 

I'm expecting to be facing Levi and Sonnia in some upcoming games, which is why I'm exploring the idea.

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What exactly did you feel were the weak points for Levi crew, what would be the 'pults primary targets? 

 

I'm expecting to be facing Levi and Sonnia in some upcoming games, which is why I'm exploring the idea.

 

...The weak points for Levi's crew are his Waifs. There is no real way to protect them from the PaP. With 4 wounds a piece, all it takes is one good shot to splatter them all over the walls, and Levi can only create a new one by killing himself. If he can't move his Waifs within 24 inches of your deployment zone, that means that Leveticus can't pop up closer than 24 inches from your zone, forcing him to walk or sacrifice models to contribute to the fight. Even worse, Levi needs to keep someone with a SS cost of greater than 6 within 6 inches of a waif for it to be a viable resurrection target, so that will be *at least* 12 stones of the enemy crew that can't move closer than 18 inches from the PaP without making the Waif irrelevant. Make sure to bring something with healing to counter the Unmaking trigger they have, and the Leveticus player is going to have a bad time. Oh, and make sure to place the PaP behind blocking terrain, because if Levi can *ever* get line of sight to it, you're going to lose it.

 

Against Sonnia, I would say use the PaP on her (and Sam, if she brings him). She has a big wound pool, but she has defense 4 and rarely brings healing. You probably won't kill her first turn, but after 3 turns of bombarding her, she should be in trouble. In this matchup, the big turning point is going to be keeping the PaP from being lit on fire; if Sonnia can see it, she can probably kill it, so make sure she has to wade through the entirety of the rest of your crew before *anything* can get to it. The PaP is more vulnerable in this matchup than any other one I can think of, but it is also a very large threat to the enemy master, so it is definitely still usable.

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Be careful when shooting the Waifs with a Pigapult. Waifs have a trigger on Tomes (which they can add for the round as a 0 action) that does 1 damage if you miss. Shoot the Waifs that haven't activated yet first if you can, and especially avoid the Waifs with Defensive stance.

 

Pigapult looks like it'll be a great Waif-hunter, just don't be surprised if you get hurt while doing it.

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so I actually dug out my old stats book to calculate the probability of just getting 1 card for Lenny to summon with when you draw. Apparently it is 63(ish)%. Using a soul stone for 2 more cards should bump the number up to around 75%. Fun Fact apparently getting at least 2 cards for summoning with a soul stone should be around 40%.

 

After doing this I can only conclude my cards don't like me :(

 

edit: to make it more clear the SS was for extra cards not suits

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Just a question on using the Pigapult.

If Lenny summons a piglet by attacking the Pigapult and then you sacrifice the summon piglet at the start of its activation to Bacon Load, does that one piglet generate/allow you to have three shots each turn if you go reckless?

It will also heal the damage that Lenny inflicted to summon the Piglet via his trigger.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I haven't taken the Pigapult yet so I was wondering - how many piglets people are taking as part of their crew? Four soulstones seems pretty steep just to use a Piglet as ammo and "Concussion" from Stuffed Piglets sounds like quite a downer. Are people using Focus to offset it?

 

As hilarious as generating piglets via Lenny sounds, his low Walk and the importance of Toss makes me wary of spending his AP generating them.

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Why worry about Lenny's "low walk" when a piglet tender can "Truffle Shuffle" him along without wasting his valuable AP?

 

Given Lenny's enhanced ability to summon Piglets in a Som'er Summon Factory it is difficult to justify hiring piglets at all to feed the Pigapult. The cost of the Pigapult makes feeding it with hired piglets turn after turn very expensive and it is not worth the points if only using Rocks is Pigs? and Launch'n (though better than Toss in a lot of ways it has a very substantial downside in Paralyzed). Using hired pigs forces them to stay near the Pigapult limiting their usefulness (outside of possibly moving it into position via "Truffle Shuffles") and also will diminish any "Out Activation" advantage you have as they are feed to Bacon Loads.

 

The cost of hiring them also limits the rest of the crew substantially, a single Piglet and the Pigapult costs 12 SS and provides only 1 Activation of Bacon Barrage's. Where as Lenny, his I'll Love It and Pet It... upgrade and the Pigapult costs 18 SS but can provide enough piglets to keep the Pigapult fed for the duration of the game.

 

I am not a fan of using Stuffed Piglets to feed the Pigapult because of the massive downsides that come with Concussion for only a slight reduction in cost. The reduction in Sh and the inability to Cheat the Damage flips really reduces the viability of the Pigapult and generally causes you to start looking at other more consistent performers. And though using Summoned Stuffed Piglets is an option, the Gremlin Taxidermist is hardly as reliable as Lenny is at it and is only a 3 SS savings.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am not a fan of using Stuffed Piglets to feed the Pigapult because of the massive downsides that come with Concussion for only a slight reduction in cost. The reduction in Sh and the inability to Cheat the Damage flips really reduces the viability of the Pigapult and generally causes you to start looking at other more consistent performers.

But sacing stuffed dont give concussion to pigapult ? It goes pop say when killed use bomb but not when its saced ? Some ability have wording when killed or saced X happen so its a difference? From what i see it should not explode and debuff pigapult

Edit nvm was the other ability stuffed with explosion that gave concussion and it say sac. Thought it came with beacon bomb

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