Magic--Immuto Question

[alemon]

To preface this, My TtB Almanac physical copy is on its way (hopefully tomorrow!) so if it's a problem with wording I'll figure it out soon enough. But the "Increased Damage" Immuto reads:

 

    "This Immuto may be placed
on a Spell multiple times.
Each time this Immuto is
taken, improve the Magia's
Damage Flip..." Pg. 241

 

and the "Increase AP" Immuto reads:

 

"This Immuto
may be taken multiple times, but a character may not
spend AP over multiple turns to cast this Spell." Pg. 241

 

At first I assumed that this meant I could take the "Increased Damage" Immuto once(taking up only one spot in my grimoire), and place it on my blast spell as many times as I want, while I would have to take the "Increase AP" Immuto several times (taking up more than one spot in my grimoire) in order to use it more than once on my magia.

 

1. Is this right? or is there something I'm missing?

2. Can we place any number of available immuto on one magia, or is it 1 Magia+ 1 Immuto=Spell?

 

[alemon]

and  a Followup question: what neat magia--immuto combinations have you guys thought up?

[hippodruid]

Spells are (generally) composed of one Magia and any number of Immuto, provided they have relevance to the Magia being used.  Some Immuto can be applied or taken multiple times to increase their effects on the spell.  Both of the Immuto that you listed can be applied multiple times and can be applied to the same spell.  Of course, Increase AP can only be taken once on a (1) spell unless the character in question can generate an extra AP.  Each Immuto only occupies a single spot in a Grimoire, no matter how many times it is taken or applied.

[Malsqueek]

Spells are (generally) composed of one Magia and any number of Immuto, provided they have relevance to the Magia being used.  Some Immuto can be applied or taken multiple times to increase their effects on the spell.  Both of the Immuto that you listed can be applied multiple times and can be applied to the same spell.  Of course, Increase AP can only be taken once on a (1) spell unless the character in question can generate an extra AP.  Each Immuto only occupies a single spot in a Grimoire, no matter how many times it is taken or applied.

 

This is exactly right. One thing that is helpful to do is to open up the magic section and practice making some Manifest Powers. I found that trying to tinker with what was possible without the limits of a grimoire let me really understand how the magic system works.

 

As an example, one of my Fated has what amounts to Hyper-Powered Suggestion in the form of Mind Control with a Delay (keyed off of a trigger), and a +1 AP bump and shackling it to Living to help reduce the required TN. There are some character-requested limitations as well, where he has to be able to speak, but the recipient does not need to understand him for the effect. What this allows him to do (in effect) is spend his turn verbally engaging an opponent to do his bidding "Are you sure that it is me that you want to shoot? What have I ever done to you? Maybe the next time you want to shoot someone, you think about your buddy over there who cheated you at cards last week". Hilarity ensues.

 

If you practice by building a couple manifested powers by starting with the desired result, you'll have a really good grip on the system as a whole.

[EnternalVoid]

Interesting combinations?  Well during the Beta I had a Three Kingdom Dabbler named Ten who was a practicer of the Frozen Flame technique who had came to Malifaux to attempt to master the art.  He used the Balanced Five Doctrine and started with the Fire and Ice Immuto that he combined.  Fluff wise he used the whole idea of Balanced Five being harmony and a specific disbalance could produce the Frozen Flame, a Blue flame that consumed like fire but expelled heat away creating a freezing affect.  Proved rather effective as while I often did only weak damage I either stacked burning, slow, or paralyze with the elemental immutos.

[alemon]

In the one shot I ran, I had one Player build a dabbler of the "Geomantic Sciences" (A darker druid). One of this spells combined the Interrogate magia and the location genus (to unleash "land"). He used it to investigate, asking yes or no questions of the area around him. Of course it was land, and so it was fallible, but I thought it was a neat idea that drove the story along and gave him a neat character.

 

Another character was playing a character inspire by Roy Mustang from FMA. after the citizens decided to lynch a character Roy had grown close to, he saved her by using the Teleport Magia and the Fire Genus (along with the focus immuto) for an explosive rescue operation (the flames did no damage). He reasoned that she was the only person to have seen him use his magic, so she would know it was him that saved her. We decided the Hedge Magic theory would be more appropriate for him after this session.

 

 

I've been combining magia and immuto in my head now for some "bosses" the group will run across, as most manifested powers seem just a bit too overpowered to be seen in every session. I really like the frozen flame idea though, definitely gonna use that! 

[LordZombie]

Are you talking Manifested powers or Grimores? In the cast of Grimores, Immutoes are limited. 

[alemon]

Thanks LordZombie. So just to be clear:

--a Fated could combine an elemental strike magia with a fire immuto and increased damage immuto

--a fated could combine an elemental strike magia with an ice immuto, increased damage immuto, and increased range immuto

--a fated could combine an elemental strike with a nature immuto and two increased damage immuto

--a fated could combine an elemental strike with three fire immuto

[Malsqueek]

Thanks LordZombie. So just to be clear:

--a Fated could combine an elemental strike magia with a fire immuto and increased damage immuto

--a fated could combine an elemental strike magia with an ice immuto, increased damage immuto, and increased range immuto

--a fated could combine an elemental strike with a nature immuto and two increased damage immuto

--a fated could combine an elemental strike with three fire immuto

 

Provided that a Fated had a Grimoire with all of those things in, OR had Mastered a couple of them, yes. Every one of those is possible.

[alemon]

Alright, thank you very much! I realize I'm asking a lot of questions, but I have just one more general (until I leaf some more) question for everyone: has anyone come up with any custom magia or immuto? I'm assuming the next books would have some additional magic options, but I've been brainstorming some until then

[EnternalVoid]

the issue of Magia and Immuto is that you are generally limited to a Single Grimoire for what is available at a given time even if you happen to possess several Grimoires.  Right now the only guildline for Grimoires is the starting ones for the three magic pursuits which each contain 2 spells of different types of magic and 3 immutos.  This leads to a very limited focus on spells, as not all Immutos are useful let alone able to combine with magia.  Often you will see people focus their immuto choices on 1 of their spells or have 2 that work well with one spell and one work with the other.

 

In either case as there is not alot of ability to mix and match outside of mastering immutos or having a Fatemaster who will let you expand your original grimoire *or create a new one from your collection of grimoires* you will generally find yourself pretty focuses on one spell and how you can alter it.  Take your first example, the elemental strike with a Fire and Increase Damage Immuto, there is one of your spells and two of your immutos, leaving only one other spell or immuto in your grimoire.  Or take your second example; Ice, Increase Damage, Increase Range.  That is one spell and all three Immutos out of your Grimoire.  That is literally the extent of your ability to alter the spell most of the time.

 

Personally I can kind of understand why they make you take two types of magia with the Dabblers, Necromancer, and Tinkerer but the more I have given it thought the more I felt you should have had one set and let the player pick the second.  For example Dabbler has to have 1 spell in Sorcery but could pick Enchanting, Presidination, or Necromancy for their other spell.  Then Necromancers would have Nercormancy and one other and Tinkerers would have Enchanting and one other.  It would give a bit more flexibility on defining your magic user's characteristics.

[Frostey]

So I brought this up in a different topic and would like some input,  but 3 out of the 4 examples of manifested powers from the TtB2e book  cant actually be built using the magia and immuto that are listed in that book, how do you guys fix the problem if the fatemaster says only from the book.

[Steamtastic Vagabond]

5 hours ago, Frostey said:

So I brought this up in a different topic and would like some input,  but 3 out of the 4 examples of manifested powers from the TtB2e book  cant actually be built using the magia and immuto that are listed in that book, how do you guys fix the problem if the fatemaster says only from the book.

Then you’d only make spell-like manifested powers.

[Frostey]

2 hours ago, Steamtastic Vagabond said:

Then you’d only make spell-like manifested powers.

So than basically there is no fix in the book.

What guidelines do you use than for making manifested powers. Do you reference malifaux unit abilities or the ttb bestiary, so you just make something up.

 

Are the powers given by pursuits possible manifested powers 

[Mason]

4 hours ago, Frostey said:

So than basically there is no fix in the book.

Manifested Powers are, by their nature, customized to the character receiving them.

They're rules-breaking abilities that are specific to the character and the circumstances in which she obtained it.

If you're wanting more guidance on how to make Spell-like Manifested Powers (which seems to be what your Fatemaster is suggesting), then check out Into the Steam, which has a more detailed section on how to craft Manifested Powers. Spoiler warning, though, there's still a fair amount of "work with your Fatemaster to come up with something cool" going on there.

[Frostey]

Many RPGs have a golden rule, or say heres a list to get you started but do anything you and your gm come up with.   Ttb does seem to Express this often. However I've found while I as a gm am more than willing to come up with cool ideas and work with players, not all are as comfortable stepping outside what's been printed.

 

I also wanted to learn the the Ttb system as player and fatemaster sp I sat down and started making characters and doing mock checks and tests. Just trying to learn the mechanics and  practice coming up with stories based on destiny tarot flips.

 

While I was doing this I found I couldn't make most of the examples given for manifested powers,  or the comparable pursuit powers, or even a good portion of the abilities that are given to creatures in the bestiary using just the book.  So I started looking on the forum to see what other people had created and found a discussion about weather the rule was to make up your own stuff, or if the rule was the 2 mag and up to 4 immuto. 

 

And I think this could lead to problems. Debates over players wanting to create abilities and fatemaster mor knowing how to balance stuff not in the book. Or 1 player sticking with just the book and feeling under capable.  And debates already seem to exist over interpretations of how manifested powers should be created. 

 

So I wanted to bring it up and ask how to resolve the issue.  If a fatemaster says only what's in the book than is the official game dev/forum answer that manifested powers are not in the book and gmd should work to balance what players would like to do. Or is the official ruling that the examples are mistakes or use unreleased content at this time, 

It can also help settle debates by having a consensus from the forum. As a fatemaster how do you balance abilities whst guidelines do you use, what examples from the books. As a player how do think of ideas or come up with stuff to take to a gm ot plan in advance.