Jump to content

is anything considered overpowered?


Kaptain_Konrad

Recommended Posts

First off, I'd like to say this isn't meant to be negative post or anything and please no calling out or fighting with other members.

Now that that's out of the way, I'm purely curious as to if there is anything that is generally considered overpowered or over the top, can be an upgrade or person, or a combo that is easy to pull off. Things to exclude are specific upgrades or abilities that hard counter one specific thing, but then is useless against everything else. And belles, don't mention belles because that opens a whole new can of worms. And remember these are peoples opinions, but please say if it is something all around considered too good, aka 7th edition Daemons from warhammer fantasy.

I'll start. Perdita, el mayor man, Sonnia and by extension Samuel Hopkins. My list is derived from the fact that my opponents masters are slightly limited, but perdita feels like she has too much for her for her ease of use. Damage, survivability, mobility, range back it up with with el mayor and she is almost unkillable. Then el mayor man (his name eludes me) when I start seeing every guild person take him no matter what, something is amiss. Now the sonnia could be because i play a decent ammount of people who like their 6"bubbles, but dear god the damage and range with blasts. Wanna kill her crew, hope you have a lot of ranged attacks or be prepared to take damage for killing them. Want terrain to hide, better make sure Samuel cant get any LoS or he'll burn the terrain, giving burning four so them Sonnia can blast you, or another burning 4 to take 8 damage and probably kill you.

But again my experiences with my master choices could he making things different, but why does guild seem so common, especially those two? Anyway what y'alls opinions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anything I use? ;)

Seriously though - no, nothing is overpowered. In general though, any given regular malifaux group is small and won't see enough different masters/factions, or enough games, or frankly enough new ideas if it remains self-contained.

This means that unless someone in your group decides to look for something new, or approaches a problem in a new way, then a particular master to model can seem overpowered - but it isn't really.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've only seen 2 things so far that I find over-powered. 

 

1. Marcus being able to fully activate a master (everything else in the game that controls other models is non-master)

 

2. Ulix/Sow combo. In one AP (Shot in the rear) only needing a 6 :ram , the Sow can kill a lot of stuff. One game that I know of she took out 4 models, almost killing a 5th. Getting that many charge actions off of 1 ap is a bit much. By contrast, during the switch from 1.5 to 2 they decided to limit Zoraida's obey because charges now gave you 2 attacks (she used to be able to obey models to charge, or do a 1 ap ability). Of course I understand that Ulix's ability is limited to pigs, but that doesn't make it any less powerful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am inclined to agree. Whilst some combos and tricks are turbo powerful they aren't always reliable, particularly when you still have to flip the right card in the first place.

 

I remember playing a game of WHFB, my wood elves against my bezzie oppo's Orcs and Goblins. I took a terror causing mask on a mounted hero and at the start of turn 2 made over half his army run off the battlefield in panic. (from an elf with a face mask!) There was next to no way to counteract it either. Just roll the dice and hope. 

 

Cheesy and not fun. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes there are OP things in the game. However we can certainly argue about what they are and how OP they are. Overall the game is very much tighter in balance than the first edition was, and the variance between the average model and the OP model is much smaller than last edition as well. The fact that it is so hard to people to agree on what is and is not OP is a testament to how well an overall job the open beta did. 

 

As for specifics I have trouble giving out specific models, as I don't think quite enough data has come in to make any personal observations. I think there are certain indications of things that should no have been done. For example I feel the Dreamer and Leveticus should not be able to clear VP conditions through burying. Part of the reason, I suspect, that they got rid of the whole dual master thing from 1st edition was because of how those masters interacted with portions of the basic VP conditions, and this I feel is more of the same.

 

Reports from the Sow are troubling, but I haven't face it yet. The illuminated are a bit too hard hitting and hard to kill than a 7 point model should be in my opinion, and Jakob and the darkness aren't as well balanced as I personally feel they should be, but these are all personal observations, not an actual rant or call for errata.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

on jacon and huggy, any CA heavy master/ crew that targets df kills huggy and ignores incorpreal and makes him sad. Lyncg is 10 wounds df 5 and no other defenses. Cheating to take 2 damage might seem as a deterrent but me taking 6 damage but killing you i get the better end of the deal.

 

illuminated are dead ard but also if your not brillant not the best beaters and relatively slow. or can be ganged up on.

 

Sow i might look into.

 

Levi and dreamer burying removing all condtions is what they do. to try writing out they remove all condtions cept vp scoring ones would take up way way way to much text.

 

that being said the Mechrider scores VP like its its job on top of being a rider.

 

And then there is Levy. cause umm levy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes there are OP things in the game. However we can certainly argue about what they are and how OP they are. Overall the game is very much tighter in balance than the first edition was, and the variance between the average model and the OP model is much smaller than last edition as well. The fact that it is so hard to people to agree on what is and is not OP is a testament to how well an overall job the open beta did. 

:+fate  :+fate  :+fate

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty much everything is OP, that's how it balances out!  I agree that a lot of stuff can seem OP when you first face it but usually a faction has something that means you will be able to counter/avoid that combo again.  I know in my gaming group we often have a huff when we face new combos that can seem really horrible (I'm regularly facing my friends Pandora crew at the moment and getting very frustrated at all those bloody Wp shenanigans).  The exception of course is fire, which is horrible ;)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have my own worries about what is insanity, but those never seem to be dominating in a "I DESTROY ALL WAY", Ulix has had some good tournies here, but his last matches were both incredibly close from what I heard. I also have my qualms with McMourning's summon, since a full life Flesh Construct is hell to deal with in terms of resources spent. Shenlong's sniper brigade is another crew that depending on the table can be outright dominating and Marcus miffs me to no end since he seems he can do anything except summon. But nothing is at a point where I'd say "cuddle IT NOW DAMMIT!".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think some summoners are poorly designed from a balance perspective. A good hand can skew a game way more than a good hand can for a non summoning master. This does not make them consistently OP, but it does mean individual matches will be imbalanced purely because of chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think some summoners are poorly designed from a balance perspective. A good hand can skew a game way more than a good hand can for a non summoning master. This does not make them consistently OP, but it does mean individual matches will be imbalanced purely because of chance.

I wouldn't say poorly designed, but they do play more with the odds. I've been noticing that summoner masters tend to play with almost no hand since they reserve their good cards for summoning. Kirai who summons and also has a ton of mid Tn actions she wants to do as well as a lot of "discard for X" effects, pretty much immolates her hand in a heartbeat if not careful, though that's the reason why Adversary is such an important condition in her crews. Also, a bad hand with a summoner whose initial crew is nothing to write home about can be a death sentence, so they sort of become the more "random" crews.

 

Meanwhile a straight master that doesn't have to do too much stuff to get his mojo going can dedicate his hand to achieving other effects instead of fueling the engine, so it makes them a tad more "reliable" in that I can blow a 12 without batting an eye to dodge that hit against Kahn on my Mei Feng crew instead of accepting a nasty hit on Datsue Ba since I want to hoard it for a Shikome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also disagree with the descriptor; poorly designed. I think they work very well.

 

With summoning though isn't the "hand kill" part of the balance? You shouldn't have more models on the table and be able to have a big hand. Sure a more straight forward master can push things through with more cards, but they generally have to do more against a summoner.....that master may have a hand advantage, but the summoner has AP and activation advantage.

I'm more concerned with the summoners that summon just by doing what they do.....like Sonnia and McMourning. Sonnia at least is only middling once engaged and she can be killed, but McMourning has no problem being engaged.....he heals himself, kills you, and summons......all you can do with him is try to stop the poison train and there are only a few models with reliable condition removal that are able to do that.

That said, I've beaten both masters with other crews so it isn't like they're un-beatable. I'll admit that I'm in a fairly small pond by me, but I haven't seen anything that screams OP to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. Sonnia and Mcmourning are both excellent summoners because they sacrifice no tempo to get their mooks on the table. Sonnia will burn resources like its going out of style but she's not wasting any ap doing anything she wouldn't already be doing. Mc Mourning just bleeds dogs and fleshies as the game goes on and he goes about his business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

summoning is a bitch to balance in any game system, honestly I think they've done a damn fine job with it. The areas where I think models do start to get overpowering is when synergy isn't balanced properly, a crew with great synergy (Ortegas, etc)  vs a middle of the road generic crew, vanilla is going to get stomped on. (only exception I've seen to this is von schill who tends to be crazily well balanced.)

 

also it seems like counter models are a BIG part of the game, your a rezzer facing a Ramos construct army better bring student of metal, your facing a Jacob crew... get boy named sue to gank that hungering darkness by turn two, etc.

 

guessing your opponent's list and putting proper counter models in your crew is an essential skill. (And yeah it sucks if your cant afford time or cash to get the models you need) I sort of think bring any completely generic supposedly overpowered crew, vs somebody who has all the models available to counter it (and knows how and what to use) and the OP crew will likely get slaughtered. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

summoning is a bitch to balance in any game system, honestly I think they've done a damn fine job with it. The areas where I think models do start to get overpowering is when synergy isn't balanced properly, a crew with great synergy (Ortegas, etc)  vs a middle of the road generic crew, vanilla is going to get stomped on. (only exception I've seen to this is von schill who tends to be crazily well balanced.)

 

also it seems like counter models are a BIG part of the game, your a rezzer facing a Ramos construct army better bring student of metal, your facing a Jacob crew... get boy named sue to gank that hungering darkness by turn two, etc.

 

guessing your opponent's list and putting proper counter models in your crew is an essential skill. (And yeah it sucks if your cant afford time or cash to get the models you need) I sort of think bring any completely generic supposedly overpowered crew, vs somebody who has all the models available to counter it (and knows how and what to use) and the OP crew will likely get slaughtered. 

Yeah, but you are assuming you always guess right. I take my student of Steel, but oh damn, he brings out Toni or Marcus without any constructs, so my counter play does nothing or you bring Sue thinking of Huggy but it's Shenlong or whatever on the other side, not a problem since Sue always has uses, but maybe you could have taken a better model for the strat or internal synergy instead of fishing for the huggy killer.

 

At the end of the day, I just chose whatever gets the strategy and schemes done and knowing the enemy faction try to add a bit of counterplay, but nothing too focused so in case I called it bad, it isn't a waste.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The danger of trying to build your crew specifically to counter the opponent means that you put too much faith in what you've chosen.  The Student of Conflict can be  great (I took him against a Ramos crew with a Rail Golem and he chopped up a Rail Golem in one activation which was loads of fun) but if you've stuck him in and he gets killed straight away then your plan is nullified. It's better to build your crew to fulfil the schemes/strats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information