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6 minutes ago, Fablo said:

I feel summoner Dreamy more powerfull thanks to the huge draw combo + playtime.
Spread black blood on nightmare is a great deal (awesome on Stiched Together); Doppleganger with def 8 (for Coppelius combo) start to be a pain when mimic an opponent beatstick.
I tested a fun list, oriented to summon teddy every turn, and i saw 20 cards (6 starting + 14 by combos)!   

Draw combo? What draw combo?😀

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1 minute ago, daniello_s said:

Draw combo? What draw combo?😀

Dreamer
- on the wing of darkness
- otherworldly
- dreams of pain
M. Emissary
- mysterious conflux
Doppleganger
- warped reality
Serena Bowman
Bloodwretch

_soulstone for on the wing of darkness = +3
_Bloodwretch "The Rage Build" + mi action on Serena = +2
_Doppleganger mimic "The Rage Build" with a 7+ tome than charge Serena = +4
_M.Emissary with 0 action = +2
_Dreamer cast playtime on Doppleganger than "Empty night/Journey" on Doppleganger = +3
14 card

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It takes you to spend 2 AP of Master on card-farming rather then on summon itself. I personally consider this as an overkill. 

Anyway, since The Rage Builds effect lasts for the rest of an Activation, your last step will only give you 1 card.

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7 hours ago, Domin said:

It takes you to spend 2 AP of Master on card-farming rather then on summon itself. I personally consider this as an overkill. 

Anyway, since The Rage Builds effect lasts for the rest of an Activation, your last step will only give you 1 card.

Yeah, i saw it later.

It's an overkill indeed, was planned only to summon Teddy every turn. 
Maybe this cards engine can work in a Tantrum/Restless Dreams oriented build?

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Would the widow weavers web markers combine with Dreamers crow trigger on his twist reality attack? Ie do the web markers mean that a wp5 model within 3 inches could be paralyzed?

I think they would as web markers reduce wp by 1 and then dreamers attack paralyzes a model if it has wp4 or less, but I just wanted to check.

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13 minutes ago, Reservoir Dog said:

Would the widow weavers web markers combine with Dreamers crow trigger on his twist reality attack? Ie do the web markers mean that a wp5 model within 3 inches could be paralyzed?

I think they would as web markers reduce wp by 1 and then dreamers attack paralyzes a model if it has wp4 or less, but I just wanted to check.

I've always played it as they should indeed work with that trigger.

Models within 3" range lose 1 WP. It doesn't specify during duels only, it's just a flat-out statement of -1 WP.

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@Fablo

I like the approach, though I'm not sure if it is cost efficient. And it depends a lot on your opponent letting you do all of that. I guess it'll only really works turn 1 - and you might be more or less a turn behind.

The main issue I see is the cards flipped for attacking/defending/relenting. The more card cycling you did, the more likely it is that the 13M or RJ turns up in an attack or defense flip. Also, you might not have cards to cheat low on the defense flip, so you'll have to relent, drawing 3 cards. That's an even bigger chance for the 13M and RJ being flipped there. And if you don't get them, you have wasted alot of ressources for one (rarly three) Teddies. It seems more efficient to just take Widow Weaver and summon mass stichet who can be turned into a Teddy later on.

 

But I'd like to try it out. Though I'd leave out the emissary and Marlene Webster. I don't see her value. Sure, she comes back, but you could use a cheap incorporeal model to get hit, and you can resummon it later. Maybe even daydreams which can be used to push around models first.

 

A 'light' version could be this. You lose card draw/cycling but have more SS left for consturcting your list and not using so many AP with Dreamer

 

Dreamer (Otherworldly, DoP. Wings, +4 SS) --> 12SS

B.wretch --> 5SS

Doppelganger --> 7SS

Mr.Tannen --> 6SS

2x Daydreams --> 4SS

Bandersnatch --> 5SS (since it has +1 wound than I.madness at the same cost)

That leaves 11 points for whatever. I'd suggest maybe Mr. Graves (there is not much damage output in the list) and another Daydream to sack for Dreamer on the defensive. Or even Marlena to make some Nightmares so that Da<ydreams can push them forward since you lose a lot of movement. Though that would be yet another support model. 

 

1. Dreamer stones (+3 cycled)

2. Dreamer activates.

    a) If you have a 7+ tomes in hand: Cast Playtime on B.wretch and Doppelganger. Then summon Lilitu if ableo or sth else. (If Lilitu, she can Lure Dreamer up the board later)

    b) If you don't: Give B.wretch fast.. Then cast playtime on B.wretch. Then, either cast Palytime again on Doppelg., or summon Lilitu if possible.

3. a) If you do: Start with B.wretch. Rage Builds + 1 hit on Bandersnatch. 2 dmg (most likely) (+3 cards, discard 1)

    b) If you don't: Start with Doppelganger. Mimic Rage Builds and hit Bandersnatch . 1 dmg (most likely) (+2 cards, discard 1) (+3 if you cast Playtime and didn't  

         summon)

4. Activate Bandersnatch near Dreamer. Heal to full. Walk somewhere.

5. Now: a) Activate Doppelganger, Mimic Rage Builds (use 7+ Tomes) and charge Bandersnatch. 2x 2 dmg  (+6 cards, discard 2), Bandersnatch probably even lives

                   because Doppelganger does base card damage.

              b) Activate B.wretch. Rage Builds and charge Bandersnatch. 2x 2-3 dmg  (+6 cards, discard 2), Bandersnatch is killed.

6. Do some other stuff with rest of the crew.

 

 

 

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Edit:

If you give B.wretch fast in scenario b) and attack the bandersnatch, it'll die and you'll have to attack sth else with Doppelganger. Still, as your models heal near Dreamer, that would actually not be a problem at all, as I just realized. Though you'd miss on summoning.

Basically, in a) you have seen 18 cards and Bandersnatch lives, in b) you've seen 17 cards and Bandersnatch dies or you lose on movement.

(Note that you could still flip 13M or RJ during all those duels)

 

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Seems like whole turn 1 you are doing basically nothing but cycling cards with all your crew. While it is nice to have good cards on turn 2 your opponent will play strategy/schemes in the meantime and you might find yourself in really difficult position almost from the start of the game.

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That's what I meant.

 

But with the list suggested you could at least have some movement and summoning. And a decent-sized starting crew.

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4 hours ago, Treehouse said:

@Treehouse

I think you meant Serena? (not marlena)

These card drawing tricks seems fun but I'm not sure I'd like to be at the receiving end of anything that can move and attack you quickly with that kind of list... Just thinking of facing Misaki storm or the Viks with it make me shivers! You probably would end up with an amazing hand but very few models left to play the cards :S

I'm not sure I Like that Dreamer has to activate so early too. In my experience summoning toward end of T1 so your summon can be healed a little by Dreamer aura while you are outactivating the other crew and/or do evil things right away to models that came too close can be a big deal for a successful game.

I guess in the card drawing gimmick, if you can get a pair of Teddy start of T2 then at least you have something to retaliate... But then again Dreamer would have to activate early T2... anyway food for thought! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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If you leave out Playtime and handing out fast, you could activate the Wretch and Doppelganger before Dreamer and you'd still see a few cards.

But, yeah, it's a gimmicky list I wouldn't take on tournaments. (And Teddy won't even have many wounds even after Dreamer's aura and Regeneration).

 

Just remembered you could take Gracie who can reactivate herself. If you cast Playtime on her, she can Take A Bite to heal herself back up and draw 4 cards in total :P (I'd field that for the lolz).

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