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If you are intending to turn your rats into a rat king, and then into a rat catcher, then damage on the rats is largely irrelevant (and most of the time, anything that can reach them turn 1 ought to be able to kill an un -injured rat, so letting them kill an injured rat is the same). If you want the activation control. then yes, you make it so that you get to activate each rat, and only the last rat will be in a position to summon the Rat King. 

There are plenty of ways to kill your own rat. Hans or a Trapper shooting it will work if you want to go that way and kill from a long way away. Rat catchers are good at reactivating the rat so it can travel quite a distance before it is ready to die. 

As to what you decide is the most efficient, well that depends on how you want to play. 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 25/11/2017 at 8:40 PM, FunWithKnives said:

Guys i use vintage hamelin model on 50mm base as Emissary? They say you could use Avatar models as the emissary and vintage Hamelin looks quite the same as vintage one.

(yeah i hate hodgepodge emissary's sculpting) 

Thats one that only your play group could really answer. If it was literally just vintage Hamlin on a base, then that looks a little poor, but if you make the base look like the Avatar base, I doubt many people would complain. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Great thread as I'm just in the process of building Hamelin and all the rats and cats that come with him! 

I have a question for those learned in the way of the plague:

Lets say after stoning for cards on Turn 1 you end up with an 8:mask and 8:crow and no other high cards or crows (I know its unlikely but I'm trying to understand the priority for Hamelin here)

Would you spend the 8:crow on summoning a rat (via O.Wretch) or to summon a second stolen via the trigger for lure Malifaux citizen?

 

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I'd go with Hamelin and try to top deck the second Stolen, only using the 8:crow if I failed. I would use it however, since I'll already have burned a stone to get the second suit, and if I don't succeed I'll have wasted that stone.

The Obedient Wretch can, if absolutely necessary, be sacrificed for two rats, but generally I wouldn't bother. If she doesn't top deck a :crowwhen throwing rats I'd just shrug and hope for better cards in the following turn. Because she's just a four stone model there's no great pressure to make maximum use out of her.

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  • 1 month later...

Having recently switched to hamelin, I'm looking for advice for gg2018. I'd like to play him for as many strats as possible for the practice. 

Some of the changes make some models (A&D) who used to be autotake not so good for things like ply or public execution. Condition removal also seems to be a weakness unless Johan is often included. 

Do you sacrifice early Rat Kings to become rat catchers since they are easy to replace? 

Plague pits. Thoughts? I really like them but savvy opponents are wise enough to send cheap models up to remove them early on making them not quite as effective as I'd like but solid for 1 SS. It's not the cost but more the upgrade slot that is the challenge since Obey is an autotake.

Bishop (as an armor or other bypass), Anna (versus Lilth or a few others) and Benny all seem to be solid beaters. Obey seems to be excellent for Sue (fixes slow movement and extra min 3 shot). Taelor versus ressers seems viable also. 

So crooligans & rats for runners and tailor beaters to taste/opponent? 

Thoughts? 

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21 minutes ago, Fenriel said:

Having recently switched to hamelin, I'm looking for advice for gg2018. I'd like to play him for as many strats as possible for the practice. 

Some of the changes make some models (A&D) who used to be autotake not so good for things like ply or public execution. Condition removal also seems to be a weakness unless Johan is often included. 

Do you sacrifice early Rat Kings to become rat catchers since they are easy to replace? 

Plague pits. Thoughts? I really like them but savvy opponents are wise enough to send cheap models up to remove them early on making them not quite as effective as I'd like but solid for 1 SS. It's not the cost but more the upgrade slot that is the challenge since Obey is an autotake.

Bishop (as an armor or other bypass), Anna (versus Lilth or a few others) and Benny all seem to be solid beaters. Obey seems to be excellent for Sue (fixes slow movement and extra min 3 shot). Taelor versus ressers seems viable also. 

So crooligans & rats for runners and tailor beaters to taste/opponent? 

Thoughts? 

Benny Wolcomb for min 4 damage targetting Upgrades' carriers with The Bigger They Are and another Ca 6, The Midnight Stalker to run around can be really effective. You listed some good choices too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

First you'd have to drop something to take Tools of the Tyrant.  Once you've made that impossible choice, it's down to what upgrades you have left on him.  Typically your choices are Sewer King, The Piper, The Plague, Survivalist, and Plague Pits:  pick 2 to go with Tools of the Tyrant.

If you don't have Sewer King, no Lost hires.  If The Pipes are removed, no Lures.  No The Plague then you risk losing Blight (and the sweet 3 cards discarded to Interact combo).  Sans Survivalist, since chances are you're going to be outrunning your The Stolen, you risk death in the ensuing grand melee.  Without Plague Pits you lose the easiest way to get Blight on the enemy, which powers everything you do.

Now, if you don't take Tools of the Tyrant, you loose out on an easy healing trigger and easy unresisted Blight spreading on your Ml attacks.  So you can still do it, but why do it that way when you can just use Bleeding Disease from 12"?

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8 hours ago, ElPuto said:

Has any of you ever tried something different with Hamelin? I'm wondering if it's possible to use him as a melee model, or hire stuff never seen in his classic builds and make it effective.

I don't know if this has been said, but I like to play Obey Hamelin bringing A&D, the Nothing Beast and Montresor/Strongarm/Hans and then stuff to get the rat engine going. Obeying the Nothing beast to focus, attack and then once again focus for when the Beast activates it's quite a laughter. Also, you can obey the enemy to fail horror checks which is quite nice too. 

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Hamelin has only three upgrade slots, and it seems that most of the time you'd prefer to be taking at least four. For me The Piper must be taken, Obey is vital to his crew. Now you have two slots. I think The Plague is also mandatory, Plague Pits might be a replacement, but it seems like your opponent can just chase the markers down and remove them with a cheap model or two, and blight doesn't really matter unless someone uses bleeding disease. So, what to take in slot three? For me it's invariably a toss up between Sewer King and Survivalist. Sewer King if I want to bring Lost models and/or sacrifice my own models, Survivalist to make a fairly tough master even tougher. If I had a fourth slot? But I don't.

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If only we had the Tara upgrade, right?  Would you take all 6 Hamelin upgrades if you could?

It pained me to remove The Plague for Plague Pits, but it works so much better in my crew.  I have Sewer King for my 3 Crooligans & The Pipes because I'm not stupid; making The Stolen summoning a priority let's me sleep better at night for not taking Survivalist.

If I play my old school list, nothing but Nihlists and lots of Rats, I drop Sewer King for The Plague; Plague Pits is just too good for me, I was already Bleeding Disease heavy before wave 5 came out and it kicked me into overdrive.

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5 hours ago, Freman said:

Hamelin has only three upgrade slots, and it seems that most of the time you'd prefer to be taking at least four. For me The Piper must be taken, Obey is vital to his crew. Now you have two slots. I think The Plague is also mandatory, Plague Pits might be a replacement, but it seems like your opponent can just chase the markers down and remove them with a cheap model or two, and blight doesn't really matter unless someone uses bleeding disease. So, what to take in slot three? For me it's invariably a toss up between Sewer King and Survivalist. Sewer King if I want to bring Lost models and/or sacrifice my own models, Survivalist to make a fairly tough master even tougher. If I had a fourth slot? But I don't.

Why do you consider The Plague mandatory? Btw, I've used Plague Pits with great results, just place them near important Strategy points or into bottlenecks, but ye, I can see your point.

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Kade is generally taken if your running a blight focused crew, his lure plus pipes or obey act as your crank that you use to pull one model out each turn and melt it.

Candy didn't really work for me with Hamelin though I'm sure there are pools where she will be useful and any failing is due to poor application.

Using her as a healer feels..expensive, without will power debuffs shes a second rate counter-hitter leaving her as a control piece which needs good timing and careful application.

Iggy I never got round to.

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I was really excited about Iggy because I had this build with Montresssor and Crooligans, I was gonna use his all these combined Willpower debuffs (easier Bleeding Disease)..... but it only affects models that haven't gone yet, and I couldn't get him into the right spot or activate him early enough in the turn to make use of him. So I just took an additional Crooligan.

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3 hours ago, ElPuto said:

Why do you consider The Plague mandatory? Btw, I've used Plague Pits with great results, just place them near important Strategy points or into bottlenecks, but ye, I can see your point.

It's part of my "generate Rat King, lure enemy model close with Pipes and blight it, Obey Rat King to 1AP charge blighted model" tactic. Plague Pits relies on the enemy coming to the Pit in order to be blighted, Pipes allows me to pick the target.

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My general load out for Hamelin is (Sewer King, Piper, Plague Pits). I will sometimes juggle Sewer King for Survivalist if Eliminate is in the pool. I don't really think there's anything else Hamelin wants or needs. Plague would be ok IF it was 1 SS, but with Hamelin you need all the SS you can get. Sewer King is good for the crooligans and to grab that extra card. (I often blow up extra rats later in the game for cards). I think Pipes action works just fine without Plague upgrade.

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I liked Plague a lot, however, introduction of Plague Pits made this upgrade obsolete, as markers can stack more blight than you would be able to apply via Pipes. The only thing I'm missing from Plague is Virulent aura, as sometimes condition removal can be very painful (once I had a game v. Yan Lo where Chiaki removed 8 Blight from old man with her single AP). If Wyrd would ever release model with this ability I'd never consider taking the Plague again. 

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Honestly with Plague Pits, its the sudden and new fear of blight that's more important than the actual Blight. Often times opponents will waste AP to remove pits or simply avoid them all together more often than I actually kill models with Bleeding Disease. I'm ok with this kind of board/AP control for 1ss

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The value of plague is not just the blight trigger but the control bonus to the psuedo lure.

It helps draw enemies into your auras, away from their defensive lines of support, vp scoring zones and ideally away from any healing/condition removal.

Having not tried plague pits I am unable to make a comparison but from what others have said I wager the toss up between the two will be influenced by board set up (terrain) and scoring locations (strats and schemes). 

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4 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

The value of plague is not just the blight trigger but the control bonus of a psuedo lure.

It helps draw enemies into your auras, away from their defensive lines of support, vp scoring zones and ideally away from any healing/condition removal.

Having not tried plague pits I am unable to make a comparison but from what others have said I wager the toss up between the two will be influenced by board set up (terrain) and scoring locations (strats and schemes). 

He has Pipes on his base card as an action. The Plague only gives him a Blighted trigger and a trigger that makes it so that IF they have 4+ blight, they must discard 2 cards to interact. Also models within 6 can't remove blighted. The only really good part of this is the Blighted can't be removed. The rest seems kinda meh for 2ss, especially when he has so much better options. 

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