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Found 24 results

  1. Mortarion

    Timing of blast damage

    The rules for Blasts (rulebook page 50) states that "In situations where the order that models suffer damage matters, the Attacker may determine the order in which the affected models resolve the blast effects". Does this apply to the original target as well, or just the models damaged because of the blasts? Or more specifically, would you be able to resolve the damage against one of the models hit by the blast before resolving the damage against the original target?
  2. Playing against the Crossroads Seven today, I had Candy end up in both Wrath's Hellhound On My Tail aura and Greed's Take What Is Yours aura at the end of her activation. I wondered, could she take the two damage from Hellhound, use a soulstone to prevent damage, and have that soulstone prevention satisfy the requirement of Take What Is Yours to spend a soulstone "during their activation"? To phrase that more generally, do effects that happen at the end of a model's activation resolve during that activation, or after it? (We played it that things which happened at the end of an activation did not happen during that activation, but I could see it going either way.)
  3. Hi all, Tried to find a thread addressing this directly but couldn't. The Scenario: A Witchling Stalker is targeted by a Attack, Triggers Drawn to Pain, and is pushed into Hard Cover. Timing wise, is the damage flip affected by the new LoS drawn? Rules: Cover: "A model will gain the benefits of cover from a () Attack when any LoS line between the Attacking model and the target model can be drawn through any terrain with the soft or hard cover traits that is within 1” of the target model. Terrain with the soft cover trait will grant soft cover which imposes a to the Attack flip of any () Attack Actions Terrain with the hard cover trait will grant hard cover which imposes a to the Attack and damage flip of any () Attack Actions." Drawn to Pain: "After failing an opposed Df duel but before suffering damage, push this model 4” towards the Attacker." Interpretation: RAW: It seems relatively clear that the Push into cover will result in the Witchling Stalker benefiting from Hard Cover for the damage flip. At least as far as the rules listed above suggest. Is this correct? RAI: It seems strange that this would be the case as the Attack has already hit the model and cover seems like it should apply at the point of targeting. Now I am aware that RAW vs. RAI, the first should always be given precedence but I wonder if this is an oversight given how unintuitive it feels.
  4. I have a multi-part question for you all today, stemming from a situation in a recent game. For context, the relevant models and abilities involved were: - Brewmaster, with Drinking Contest up - Bete Noire, with one wound, Swill +1 and inside the Drinking Contest aura - Whiskey Golem attacking Bete, and does not black joker the damage So, our questions were: 1. Does Bete's Death Rattle require a Drinking Contest check? 2. If yes, and Bete fails, does she make the healing flip before being removed? 3. If yes, does she heal from a place of negative wounds, or does it start at zero? If she somehow heals enough to be back above one wound, does she still die? We played it as she does not heal - the failed check just means she died. When we checked the FAQ, this particular interaction wasn't terribly clear. Thank you all in advance.
  5. Hi all, Following a Twitter conversation I read about trigger timings, the inevitable "Flowchart of timing" comment came up and I thought, why not have a go and make one?! The goal of this piece is to help players (particularly new players) understand when triggers are activated, the importance of the distinction between after damaging and succeeding triggers and create a clear process for timing that all players could follow with regards to abilities found on the front of model's cards. So here is my 1st attempt: Dropbox of the file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rauapl24yes73p1/Malifaux Trigger Chart.pdf?dl=0 I've included what I think are the relevant FAQ and where they come into effect during the flow. The FAQ answers are on the second page of the dropbox file for reference. It has helped me so far in understanding timing, for example if I want to bring back Huggy with Lynch (via Rising Sun) and I kill a non-brillianced model on 1 wound I would need to use his hold out pistol to kill the enemy model rather than pay for blood, because the pistol has an after damaging trigger while Pay for Blood is after succeeding, which would result in the model getting removed before it got Brilliance. I'd like to hear from the faux community about whether any of this is accurate, what I could refine/improve and what I have that is just plain wrong! One question I have that isn't clearly stated in the FAQ (probably because it is obvious) is that does an after failing/resolving trigger on a defending model not get used if the model is killed during step 5. I don't think it would as the wording would clearly state otherwise. Edit: updated with Bengt comments
  6. Rameyous

    Timing and targeting.

    Couple questions that came up while playing some campaign games. 1) Howard Langston drops a card to flurry, then targets Teddy with the first attack causing a terrifying duel. Howard is immune to paralyze(via campaign upgrade) so he fails the duel but now Teddy get a free melee attack, hits Howard, declares peekaboo to push Howard then push into base contact. Now the player controlling Teddy pushes Howard in such a way that Teddy cannot be pushed into base contact(using terrain). Can Howard now use nimble to get back in range for the flurry? 2) Does perdita's upgrade that allows her to ignore duels to target models work for terrifying? Thanks!
  7. A situation arose during the game last night where multiple abilities are triggered from one action. Since I'm not sure we resolved them in the correct order, I thought I should ask just to confirm (and to get better at these 'timing' stuffs). For reference: Situation: Lilith is engaged with 2 Shieldbearers, one of which has already been 'dead' once so it has "My Fight Is Not Finished" attached, granting it Soulfire. Lilith activates and uses her (0) Teach Them Fear action, then proceeds on attacking the Shieldbearer (with upgrade) and declared the use of "The Bloody Beauty". The damage flip is enough to kill the model, so the "Soulfire" ability kicks in. From what I understand, both Teach Them Fear and Soulfire are triggered at the same time during Step 5 (i.e. when this model kills a non-Peon enemy model AND after an enemy model kills or sacrifces this model, respectively). While The Bloody Beauty, an after damaging trigger, is resolved after Step 5. Is this the correct timing to resolve all the abilities/actions? ; 1. Lilith heals 2 damage from Teach Them Fear and the two Shieldbearers are forced to take TN14 Horror duel. (as Acting Model's abilities are resolved first - pg 46) 2. Lilith takes TN 14 Df duel from Soulfire. 3. Finally, both Shieldbearers takes TN 13 Wp duel from The Bloody Beauty trigger. (even the one killed, as after damaging trigger are resolved before the model is removed if it is killed.) 3.1 If the Shieldbearer failed Wp duel, it is pushed before being removed, correct? Thank you.
  8. Scenario: Dreamer is at Waking Condition 3 with Restless Dreamers/Tantrum upgrades He shoots a model, raising his Waking to 4 The model he attacks has a Trigger that does 4 damage to the target that damaged it Both Chompy Summoning and the Damage Trigger hurting Dreamer happen "After resolving damage" Option A: Dreamer takes the damage, then Chompy pops out Option B: Active player chooses whether to have Dreamer take damage first or Chompy Summoning to go off first Option C: Chompy pops out, then takes 4 damage--no choice by any player Thanks!
  9. Thimblesage

    Talent Timing Conflicts

    I have some questions about Talent timing conflicts. On the face of it, they seem to be straightforward. From the Rulebook: · If two Triggers would resolve at the same time the Defender’s Trigger is resolved first. · Whenever any Ability happens at the same time as any Triggers, the Triggers are resolved first. · If two Abilities happen at the same time, resolve them in the following order: o 1. The Acting Model resolves its Abilities. o 2. The Defending Model (if there is one) resolves its Abilities. o 3. Any other models controlled by the First Player resolves all of their Ability effects in any order the First Player chooses. o 4. Any other models controlled by the Second Player resolves all of their Ability effects in any order the Second Player chooses. Therefore, this should leave no wiggle room for error. However, what happens in the following cases: 1. What happens if there are more than two models involved? Who is considered the ‘defender’ if both opponents must defend against a Blast/Pulse/Aura and how does the order unfold? 2. What if the trigger is an ‘ability trigger’ (is found in the ability section of the talents) what is it considered for timing resolution? 3. This is the most common conflict I run into. From the rulebook, “Most Abilities grant a passive effect, some of which have their effect when a model suffers damage or is killed.” Triggers are declared on step 4 of a duel and in general resolve immediately unless indicated otherwise, I.e. “After (succeeding, Failing, resolving, damaging)”. Regardless of when they resolve, often they give passive effects. So how do Effects that are Passive gained from either abilities or triggers resolve? Do they, a. “stick” until a new effect supersedes? b. Does the “most Specific” rule come into effect? Pg.19 - In the rare instance that two special rules contradict each other, the more specific of the two rules takes precedence. c. Or does something else happen?
  10. I have simple question. 1) When is result of action resolved? Is it in step 3 of action resolving (m2e rb pg 37) or step 5 of duel resolving (m2e rb pg 33)? Or - less general: 2) What is resolved first - damage or after succeeding/failing/resolving triggers? Thanks in advance.
  11. boots468

    Misaki Questions

    Hi - apologies if these are fairly common type questions, but I generally struggle to parse the exact timings of triggers and things, so here are some Misaki questions: 1) If an opponent has a push DF trigger (e.g. Squeel), does that happen before or after Misaki's inbuilt Next Target push trigger (assuming you declared it). 2) Does the push happen before or after the damage flip? If after, is it also after markers (eg Headhunter, Finish the Job) are placed if she manages to kill her target? 3) Risky Ventures gives her + Crow to Ml if no stones in pool. If she uses her very last stone to add a crow, will Risky Ventures kick in (as determine dual comes after use soulstones)? 4) Thunder - It says "This Model is immune to damage caused by Thunder" - does this include an opposing Misaki's Thunder too? Or a Doppelganger's, etc? 5) Smoke Bombs (from Smoke & Shadows upgrade) - can the 50mm markers be placed over terrain etc (as just says "not touching other models or markers")? Also, is there any point to the action having Rg:3 when they have to be placed in base contact with the caster? 6) Can Hannah copy a minion's Smoke Bombs action? Thanks!
  12. Which happens first. Ironsides Come get some or a Disengaging strike? does the enemy have to pass the walk duel first then try to walk away or do they have to see if they walk away first then try to pass the duel?
  13. Hi all, I wondered something about the timing on the Shadow Emissary's Aspect of the Dragon ability, specifically the ability that affects Poison damage (Dragon's Blood, I think it's called). My question is, is it possible that this ability does nothing, even if enemy models with poison are within the aura and in LoS at the end of the turn? Reasoning; Poison damage happens in the Upkeep step of the endphase. Aspect of the Dragon lasts until the Upkeep step of the endphase. Poison is a condition applied to enemy models, and as such falls under their timing for resolution. Aspect of the Dragon grants an ability to the Emissary, and as such falls under its timing for resolution. If the enemy models resolve their Upkeep step stuff first, the ability will work and the affected models will suffer the additional damage, but if the Emissary's crew resolves first, Aspect of the Dragon falls off before it can do anything. I'm not sure if this can happen (hence why I'm asking), but it seems rather a pointless ability if it only ever works half of the time, despite it being cast successfully and enemy models being within its aura and affected by poison. I think it can happen, depending on who is First Player during that turn, but I thought I would ask to be sure, since I'm good at missing minutae like this. Thanks!
  14. BigHammer

    Misdirection timing

    Hi all. I've been using Misdirection for a while now and have always just taken its timing for granted (I don't get to play against a lot of 10T players and have only my own experience to go on with it). ----- Misdirection This model gains the following Ability: Df() Misdirection: After an Attack from an enemy model succeeds against this model, target model within 2" of this model must discard two cards or suffer the effects of the Attack Action instead of this model. The model which Attacked this model may not be the target. ----- My question is about the timing, "After an Attack action from an enemy model succeeds". Action triggers that have the "after succeeding" timing are stated to take place once the effects of the action have taken place (so usually after any resulting damage flips, etc). Would that be the same in this instance, so that the attacking model would have to flip damage, etc, before the trigger comes into effect? This matters not only because it might affect how the attacker cheats their attack flip/damage flip, but also because if it takes effect before the damage flip, things like Hard to Wound on the target model would take effect, whereas if it takes place after the damage flip, it would indirectly circumvent any such rules. I have always just done the misdirect before the damage flip, but reading it properly now it seems to me that it would take effect after the damage flip. Since I'm now confused about it, I figured the best thing to do would be to ask. Thanks in advance.
  15. Situation: Huggy is buried, Jakob is equipped with The Rising Sun upgrade. Jakob activates and use Hold Out Pistol to shoot an enemy with few wounds remaining and NO Brilliance characteristic. Assuming the following: the attack is successful, the damage is enough to kill the enemy model, Jakob is within 6" of said model, the duel total of Jakob include a (to trigger Coated Bullet). The enemy model would die AND gain the Brilliance characteristic due to Coated Bullet trigger. Which happens first? This is relevant because to unbury Huggy a model with the Brilliance characteristic must be killed within 6" from Jakob.
  16. OneLittleThunder

    Wastrels: Bravado and Cast-Offs

    The relevant text from the Wastrel's card (emphases added): Bravado: When this model declares an Action that will cause a duel, it may discard a card to add any suit to the final duel total of the Action. If this model has an Upgrade attached, draw a card after resolving the Action. (2) Cast-offs (Ca 5 / TN: 11): Target another friendly model within 6". Heal 2 damage on the target, or remove all Upgrades attached to this model and attach them to the target. If a Wastrel declares Cast-offs, then uses Bravado and discards a card, and then chooses the second option for Cast-offs (thus handing off all his Upgrades), does he draw a card afterward? He had an Upgrade attached when he used Bravado, but not after it was resolved. The grammar pedant in me wants to say that if the Wastrel were not meant to draw a card in this case, the Bravado sentence would read, "After resolving the Action, draw a card if this model has an Upgrade attached." Thoughts?
  17. I would have sworn I've read this on here somewhere, but The Force Was Not With Me when I looked, so I thought I'd ask. Dreamer got hit by a Dawn Serpent range attack, doing 2 damage (weak), and +1 Burning via an "after damaging" trigger. Dreamer pays a Soul Stone to prevent, and luckily flips moderate to prevent 2. Does Dreamer get Burning? does the trigger happen before or after Soul Stone use? Option 1: Damage was done (trigger happens), and then was prevented. Option 2: Damage was done, then damage is prevented, and then you check for a trigger which won't happen because, now, damage hasn't been done? Or maybe I'm so wrong it's neither of these? (For instance, I only now see that the Dawn Serpent's attack is Sh not Ca, so damage should first be halved for Incorporeal, so it wasn't especially lucky that the damage prevention flip was good.) All help appreciated.
  18. In a thread about Sonnia Criid we stumbled upon the following question, and I'm not sure how to answer it. Sonnia has the following ability: "Ancient Runes: This model gains to duels during its Ca Actions when targeting a model with Wp 6 or more." My question is: Does this include duels she has to make for targeting the model, e.g. Terrifying and Manipulative? The relevant rules can be found on page 37, big rulebook, where the sequence an Action is resolved is described. Under Step 1. Declare Action and spend AP the following sentence can be found: "Sometimes a target will have special Abilities (such as Terrifying) that requires (sic!) a duel in response to being targeted. These duels are handled now, after AP is spent and targets are declared." Step 2. Perform Duels follows. For me, that part in Step 1 means that the Horror duel is performed during the action (during step 1 of the action, to be precise), and as it's a duel and the target is declared before, Sonnia could profit from the Ability. For others who disagreed with me, Step 2. Perform Duels indicates that only duels performed during the second step of an action should be modified by the ability. I hope I represented the arguments of both sides fairly. What do the rules masters think? Are there rule passages I overlooked that clear the question up? Thank you for your attention.
  19. BigHammer

    Blot The Sky and Focus

    Hi all. I had a quick question on the timing of the attack action that the "Blot the Sky" upgrade can grant to thunder archers. The ability lists the timing of this attack as "at the end of the turn". What I'm not sure about is whether this takes place before the thunder archer loses its Focus(x) condition or after. It seems like it would make sense to be before the condition expires, but this seems rather powerful as it allows several archers to walk once, focus to gain focus(+2), then take a (2) attack action using those focus points that ignores line of sight and has blasts attached. Possibly this was the intent of the upgrade, but I'd like to be sure I'm not exploiting anything with this. Thanks.
  20. Violation of Magic: When an enemy model with the Burning Condition within 10 is reduced to 0 Wounds, Sonnia may spend a Soulstone or discard two cards to summon a Witchling Stalker into base contact with the model before it is removed. Explosive Demise 1: All models within 2 suffer 1 damage when this model is killed (not sacrificed). A Witchling Handler kills an Ice Gamin that has the Burning Condition within Sonnia's aura. Does the newly summoned Witchling Stalker suffer damage From Explosive Demise? If the two abilities have the same timing point, Explosive Demise is resolved first, because it is the defending model's ability. Violation of Magic is resolved after it, because it is an ability on other model that is not part of the duel. That would mean that the newly summoned Stalker would not suffer damage. If on the other hand the two abilties do not have the same timing point (because model needs to be reduced to 0 wounds before it counts as killed or something), and Violation of Magic is resolved first, the newly summoned Stalker would take damage from the explosion. Which is the correct way to resolve this situation?
  21. Explosive Demise 1: All models within 2 suffer 1 damage when this model is killed (not sacrificed). Blessed of December attacks a model with Explosive Demise rule killing it. (It was Ice Golem in the game I played.) Blessed of December has ability Eat Your Fill. Eat Your Fill: After killing or sacrificing an enemy model, this model may choose to heal all damage it has suffered and end its Activation. Which ability is resolved first? I'm aware that Eat Your Fill would go first because it is the attacker's ability if the two abilities have the same timing point. Do they have the same timing point or should Explosive Demise be resolved first because it happens when the model is killed instead of after? I also had the option of cheating in a for my attack to trigger Into Shadow. Into Shadow: After damaging, push this model up to 4" in any direction. Could I have avoided the damage from Explosive Demise by pushing away into safety or is the Explosive Demise resolved first? Once again, I'm aware that Into Shadow would go first if they have the same timing point, because triggers are resolved before abilities. It's not clear that they do have the same timing point however, because the target model actually suffers the damage and is thus killed during step 5, while After Damaging triggers are resolved after step 5. Can I avoid the damage from Explosive Demise with Into Shadow trigger?
  22. I am quite confused on how is the timing supposed to work with abilities and triggers that are resolved when model dies and with dying in general. 1: Do abilities and triggers that happen when model dies and after model dies happen at the same time? (Think explosive demise and Snow Storm's Gorge trigger for example.) 2: Are after model is killed triggers resolve before/after/at the same time when after damaging triggers? 3: What about after failing/succeeding/resolving triggers? 4: What happens when model is killed (reduced to 0 wounds) before it's own action is resolved? Does the action still get resolved normally? (Think attacking model taking damage from Lynch's defensive trigger and also triggering something that is resolved after damaging like overpower.) 5: Are triggers/abilities that happen when/after model is reduced to 0 wounds resolved before/after/at the same time as when/after killed triggers/abilities. Bonus question: The defensive triggers that all Riders have, do you apply the reduction twice against attacks caused by overpower and similar triggers? I would really appreciate if your answers included the word 'because'.
  23. So lets say I have a Desolation Engine with 2 wounds left. He makes a melee strike against Kaeris which costs him 1 wound immediately leaving him at 1 wound. Now he hits Kaeris which triggers her flaming armor which does 1 dg to the engine leaving him at 0 Wd. Desolate Engine has Consuming Touch which heals him for 1 Wd for each Wd he inflicts on the defender. Does Desolation Engine just Die without inflicting Dmg even though he hit? Does he go to 0 wds resolve the dmg, resulting in a heal and live to swing again? or some other option.? Pg 44: "A model reduced to 0 Wd will be removed from the game as killed unless an effect that could prevent the Wd or heal the model to 1 or more Wd is applied. Bonus Question: aLeviticus is at 1 Wd and Does Severe dmg to a 1 Wd Lilith. Does the Black Blood Kill aLevi before he can heal because of killing her with Destructive Infusing? Double Bonus: Replace aLeviticus with Desoloation Engine. Does the Desolation Engine get killed before it can heal from Consuming Touch?
  24. The first Timing rule states that each sentence must be resolved completely before moving to the next. The second indicates that when an effect triggers another, you pause the effect, resolve the triggered effect and then continue resolving the previous effect. Here is the scenario which is confusing me: Kirai, who has used Seishin Beacon during this turn's activation, has 2 Seishin's in base contact with her. It is Pandora's activation, she has successfully pacified both Seishins leaving them with one wound each. She then casts Project Emotions on one of the Seishins. The first step is to place the Blast Marker in base contact with the Seishin. The Blast Marker is placed in such as way that Kirai and the other Seishin are under the Blast Marker and that anything which would be placed in base contact with Kirai would also be touched by it. This is easily doable since Kirai and Seisin's are small bases. The second step is to resolve the part of the spell that causes everyone touched to take resist duels; and this is where I get unsure. I understand that Kirai's controller decides the order in which she does the duels. Let's say this happens: Kirai goes first and fails, she loses a Wd because of Emotional Trauma and now has been successfully attacked. Seishin A loses his Resist Duel and takes a Wd from Emotional Trauma. Kirai decides to take a Wd to ignore Fragile Connection and summons Seishin C in base contact with herself. This new Seishin is under the Blast Marker. Seisin B loses and is sacrified because of Fragile Connection. Question 1. Is Point 1 where Kirai decides to offload the eventual (since we're not at that point in the spell resolution yet) affect to a Seishin? If so, let say she chooses Seishin A. Question 2. Does Seishin C now have to take a Resist Duel since he is touched by the Blast Marker and we're still in the part of Project Emotion that makes models take Resist Duels if they are touched by it? Once all the Resist Duels are done, we now get to the part that actually places an affect on the models that lost their duels. Question(s) 3+. Kirai picked Seishin A to get affected instead of her, what happens? Given that the Spirit Sheath ability is on the Seishin, one would assume the effect allowing Kirai to redirect the attack affects expired with it when it died? Would Kirai now have to suffer the effects of Project Emotions (like being tagged with Pity)? I realize I may be overthinking things here, but I'm honestly curious about it as this places the onus on the Kirai player to carefully choose what order Resist Duels are performed.
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