spect_spidey

I understand that there is cost for the design, molds, production, etc. for these alt and limited models. We have to understand that these types of models can be partially written off as promotional and marketing items. They are used to draw people to events, tournaments, or to purchase from their local stores. And we have to realize that some of these alts aren't really alts. They are an extra design that they decided to leave out of the normal box. A prime example is the Katanaka Sniper. The alt is clearly a third model that is on the same sprue as the other two, but was cut off, given away in promotions (which are tax write offs) or sold at a premium during these "sales". We can clearly see where it was part of the original sprue, but for some reason it was decided to sell two instead of three. Is that really worth $25? It is like a video game designer leaving content out of their game on release day and then charging for it on release day.

I live in the U.S. and I agree with you. $25 for a human sized model! That is bordering on Games Workshop prices. Wyrd does a lot of great things with their local store promotions and Guilders, but these prices are a bit much for individual models. The other thing about them is that most of these are items that are awarded in mystery boxes for tournament prizes. Heck several of these that are on the list at $25 were given away for Free RPG Day here in the U.S. IMHO, you can't really call it a sale if there is no discount. This is just a similar move like Disney performs with its classic movies. Twice a year, Wyrd lets some of these models out of the "vault" to create hype and false demand. This makes people spend more money than they normally would because of the "if I don't act now, I won't be able to get model X until Easter!" mentality. I have only been playing Malifaux for less than a year. I started in May. Part of the reason that I started playing the game was how the company supported the local stores, gave their Henchmen great prize support, and published a free magazine. These "sales" lower my view of the company. It actually started when I was hyped for the GenCon "sale" only to find that there were no discounts. It was just a way to allow people to get some items early which in turn can hurt local retailer sales when the items officially release. A big disappointment for me.

I think they were made not to be intentionally. I think the Wokou Raiders show that. Members of the Last Blossom that are Outcast are the more unsavory and less clandestine types that she hires.

I am surprised that there is no other advice on this.

But Misaki can take Last Blossom models regardless of faction. Doesn't that mean that they don't have to pay the merc tax? The same with Tara and Void models.

Thanks for the reply. My thoughts on Aionus were based upon him effectively having 3 AP to act as my master in round 2. This should also give me activation advantage due to the cost of most henchman and my opponents adding their master forces them to use the majority of the extra 15 points to pay for the henchman while adding their master. For the round 1, I didn't feel like Aionus would need to do much with Vanessa giving Lazarus an extra action and me being able to see the three cards for her action and possibly Lazarus' free action. With close deployment, I figure four shots from Lazarus will kill one or two of the opponent's crew. Vanessa being on the centerline will give her a Ca of 9 effectively making her guarantee damage. Malifaux Child using discard to gain fast and casting from Aionus. My opponent would either be discarding their hand or gaining slow on several models. I typically play with masters that have low caches so I usually don't rely on a soulstone cache. The other option I had considered was to use Leveticus in round 2. Adding him and Hollow Waifs would give me a significant activation advantage, but then would require me to restructure round 1 since I couldn't take any Hollow Waifs if I used the Malifaux Child in round 1. I could field Rusty Alyce instead of Aionus and use her to give Lazarus reactivate to devastate my opponent, but that would be risky leaving him with one wound in close quarters with my opponent having a chance to activate a model. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable leaving him with 1 wound and no source of healing other than his own zero ability. Basically I feel like my round 1 game plan would be eliminating my opponents four models by round two or three. The Lazarus/Vanessa combo should be able to effectively do that.

So I have an escalation style tournament coming up. Here are the details: Round 1: Modified Henchman Hardcore Henchman Hardcore is different from standard Malifaux in the following ways: • All Crews must be led by a Henchman, not a Master. • The game size is 20 Soulstones. • All Crews must contain exactly 4 models, no more, no less. • Upgrades may be purchased, as allowed by the standard rules of Malifaux. • The size of a Crew’s Soulstone Pool is limited by the Cache of the Henchman leading it; any Soulstones above this amount are discarded. • Any Actions, Abilities, or Triggers which summon models are considered to be “blank” (they may not be used and have no effect on the game, as if they were not printed on the model). • Only one Scheme will be available. Set Up • Deployment: Close. • Strategy: Hardcore Turf War. This Strategy uses the Turf War rules (Core Rulebook pg. 66) with the exception that VP may be scored on the first Turn. • Scheme Pool: Eliminate the Leadership from GG17. This is the only Scheme available and it must always be taken. 50 minute Time Limit Round 2: 35ss Game Deployment: Standard Strategy: Reckoning Schemes: Claim Jump, Accusation, Frame for Murder, Covert Breakthrough, Show of Force 1 hour 45 minute Time Limit You must bring all models that participated in Round 1 into Round 2. You may bring a Master to this encounter but if you do you must pay for your Henchman from Round 1. You may change out your Upgrades freely. Round 3: 50ss Game Deployment: Corner Strategy: Squatters Rights Schemes: Claim Jump, Dig Their Graves, Leave Your Mark, Hidden Trap, Recover Evidence You must bring all models that participated in Round 1&2 into Round 3. If you didn't use a Master in Round 2ou may bring a Master to this encounter but if you do you must pay for your Henchman from Round 2. You may change out your Upgrades freely. So here was what I was thinking. Round 1: Aionus, Lazarus, Vanessa, Malifaux Child Round 2: Aionus, Lazarus, Vanessa, Malifaux Child, Johan, Big Jake, Void Wretch ( I figure Aionus is almost like a master so why reveal my hand just yet when I would still have a capable crew.) Round 3: Aionus, Lazarus, Vanessa, Malifaux Child, Johan, Big Jake, Void Wretch and then I get stuck. LOL I have the following models to work with in Outcasts. Masters: Tara, Von Schill, Leveticus, Misaki Henchmen: Nothing Beast, Aionus, Rusty Alyce Enforcers: Lazarus, Vanessa, Freikorps Specialist, Freikorps Librarian, Johan, Karina, Big Jake Minions: Wokou Raider x3, Freikorps Trapper, Dead Outlaw x3, Freikorpsmann x2, Void Wretch x3, Abomination x3 Peons: Steam Trunk, Malifaux Child, Hollow Waif x3 Any help would be appreciated.

Ah thank you. I was unaware that this could be done. Much appreciated. This will speed up my viewing of the forums.

There should be a way to mark a sub-forum as read without having to go into it. There are some forum sections that I like to read, but there sub-forums don't interest me. But in order to know that I have viewed all the topics of s section I have to go into the sub-forum and mark it read otherwise I get an indication that the section is not read. For example, the Community Events section has a main section and then separate continent sections. Being from North America, the only sub-forum that I care about is the North America one. But if I don't go into all the others and mark them as read, then the main section will appear to have new posts that I won't know if false until I go into it. Can this be updated so that you can click a main section or a sub-section as read without having to load its topics?

FYI, Conapalooza page doesn't have your tournament listed on their site.

I still have not received any form of contact on this. I submitted my form on August 3rd. I guess I will just continue to wait.

To piggyback off this question, how is Fatemaster characters damage determined if they don't flip cards?

This statement proves what I am trying to say about the game design and using a standard AV. If a Fated focuses on Defense, Wisdom, or both you get to a point in which adventures have to go right into Enforcers or Henchman. You can no longer run adventures that build up to the big villain because the minions, etc. no longer offer any challenge. Look at it from a point of a campaign that doesn't contain one overall villain behind the whole campaign. Think of it more like an episodic TV series. Your players run through several one shots and get some advances which they focus on one area say Defense. Now you really can't continue with one shots that build up to a climax with the villain because the villain's minions now pose no threat to the Fated. If you adjust their AV to make their TN higher, all you are really doing is promoting that group of 5 minions to Enforcers. The point I am trying to make is that static AVs result in minions becoming obsolete and IMHO destroys the build up to a climax that can result from progressing through an adventure. The one shots I have read always start with a little investigation, a minion battle, an ongoing challenge, a slightly tougher battle, some more ongoing challenges, and then a battle with the main villain to resolve the adventure. Static AVs result in losing some of this build up to an adventure conclusion as the Fated get stronger. For example, a group who has dealings with the Guild I could see starting to send more than regular Guild troops to deal with them. But in the next adventure if they are dealing with an Arcanist or a Neverborn who has no previous dealings with the Group wouldn't have any reason to through Enforcer level enemies at them at the beginning of their conflict. I will concede and agree that if you are running an interwoven campaign that concludes with the main villain being revealed as the campaign draws to a close this is fine to have the enemies become tougher throughout the campaign because the person pulling the strings behind the whole campaign is aware of the groups capabilities. But often times a new adversary may have never even heard of the group and so has no reason to pull out their big guns.

Your post is looking at it from attacking. I am looking at it from Fated defending. A starting character can have a Defense and Willpower of 5. This means for a typical minion they need to flip a 5 or better to avoid an attack. That is not hard to do. As a player focuses on increasing Defense & Willpower their dependency on the flip lessens. This makes the threat lessened. So if the player has no fear of that enemy, they won't care if the combat takes forever to defeat the enemy since there is no probability of damage. As a Fatemaster I shouldn't have to change enemy stats to make the opponent a challenge. IMHO that is a flaw in game design. If the intention is for me to do that why even have NPC stats? An enemy of any kind should pose a threat no matter how experienced the Fated is. Having their AV constant causes enemies to become less threatening and obsolete as characters advance. Any enemy shouldn't become obsolete simply because the character now automatically beats their AV. That is what will happen in TTB. How would Malifaux play if no minion could ever hurt a master? This can be applied to any situation in the game. Max out charm and no one could ever resist you. I use Defense & Willpower as my main example due to combat and death being the most prevalent ways a Fated could be removed from the game. IMHO, the more you remove the ability for random results the less exciting, dangerous, and fun interacting with the world is. My players always remember the times there were critical hits and fumbles whether PC or NPC. I couldn't see them talking about the time they auto-evaded all those attacks because their Defense was higher than the enemy AV.

I get what everyone is saying, but I am not sure everyone is understanding my point. It seems without the randomness for adversaries, that it becomes too easy to completely eliminate possible opponents from use. Looking at character creation, a player can create a Fated that only needs a 4 or 5 on a flip to evade most minions. I figure with a few advancements, those AV 9 or 10 minions no longer become a threat since the card needed to beat them becomes so low. I may be wrong, but it seems like eventually the only worry is flipping the black joker. My experience has been that when players no longer fear adversaries it changes their way of playing. If you no longer have much to fear from a Freikorpsman damaging you, then it doesn't matter if you decide to attack them. With their constant values, they will never hit you. Giving them a card flip makes them more dangerous. It puts doubt into a player's mind whether it is worth the risk of getting into a fight or not. That is what I am trying to get at the known static values can change thought patterns in players and cause certain things to become irrelevant. Even in D&D, a bunch of goblins have a chance against high level characters because of critical hits and numbers. TTB doesn't have that because there is only one black joker to draw and flipping a 1 could still mean success. At a certain point Fated will always succeed against minions and then only Enforcers will challenge them and then eventually only Henchmen.

I can see that reasoning but it also seems to make some adversary abilities function weird, clunky, confusing, or all three. It also seems to make adversary triggers weird. Maybe I don't understand the rules correctly or I am missing the intention. But if everything is measured then where is the doubt in combat? If the Fated can easily calculate odds and victory is assured based upon knowledge that an enemy will only pose X amount of threat or difficulty IMHO, it makes combat meaningless. It becomes a game similar to 4th edition D&D where the threat is not real because every combat is set to expend X amount of resources based upon challenge level. I think a possible better solution is increasing wounds of adversaries rather than defense or willpower. Because stats are confined to such a small value range and adversaries are constant, it means a Fated will almost always know whether they will go before or after that young nephilim and whether their one attack will always wound or not. To me, this loses some of the strategy that Malifaux provides. The randomness is needed to make player's fear for their characters. Not every battle or situation should be fair or winnable. Sometimes even trying to cheat Fate shouldn't be enough.

Just curious, anyone know why they made the rules so that the Fatemaster never flips? It would seem to me that the rules would flow better if there were two separate decks, one for the Fatemaster and one for the Fated. The mechanics would then work similar to Malifaux. It seems to me that the current mechanic would eventually take away some of the mystery of the game. When the Fated encounter a certain type of NPC they will always know the target number based upon a previous encounter and will always know a range of TN based upon the adversary being a minion, henchman, etc. I think flipping for the Fated opponents would add randomness back into the game. I mean if a person created their character right, they could make it so they could always overcome a certain degree of opponent without ever having to worry about what they flip. It all seems odd to me and a bit clunky.

Has the August promotion been handled yet? I can be patient and wait for my model. I just have postal issues sometimes. I like to know when something is coming so that if I don't have it by a certain time I can contact the postal service.

Does anyone know if the alt models for this promotion have been sent out yet? I haven't heard anything since I submitted my form and receipt.

You can get them from Noble Knight. The website is nobleknight.com or you can usually find them listing stuff on eBay as well.

May an alternate Sue that looks like this? This is an artist's image based off of the main character from the movie Six String Samurai.

In my situation these are items out of stock even on Wyrd's own site. This means that more of the items need to be made. That is my question, when can we expect Wyrd to restock the items so they can be bought from them or from a distributor?

I know the feeling. My wife has been waiting for the Doppleganger and Nephilim boxes to be restocked for several months. It would be nice to get an update on when some of these models are expected to be restocked.

Anyone? @Mason do you have any insight? September is my birth month and I am trying to decide if I buy myself a Malifaux present or spend the money elsewhere. LOL

I think an alternate Misaki would be nice. I don't really care for the back kick, bisento behind the back pose. When I started playing about four months ago, the first thing I did was hit up a loan shark to get me some Guilders to get the vintage Misaki model. The one in her crew box is horrible.