TheJoyInGaming

@LeperColony Again, I understand your position. I am asking you questions that you refuse to provide an answer for regarding the timing chart. A Start of Activation effect has to resolve at some point during a model’s activation. That is a given. Our interpretation is that they start, and resolve, in Step C1, hence they resolve as I have described above. Your position has yet to identify when Start of Activation actually finish resolving. You cannot say C1, as then you would either have to start making up rules about why these abilities resolve differently, or our position is correct. You cannot say C2, as that would be arguing that the effects begin at one point and end in another (that would be making up rules). You cannot say Start of Activation purgatory, as that would be making up rules because that Step doesn’t even exist in the game. This is why in multiple threads effect resolution and timing have been quoted to you; because you are ignoring the elephant in the room. I will not reply further as the only thing you have made clear in your stance is that you will argue “nuance” when you are confronted with very good critique of your position.

Again, I understand your position quite well. You are just trying to have your cake and eat it too. To explain: If it is still Step C1 as a Start of Activation ability resolves, then subsequent Start of Activation abilities can begin resolving even if they had not originally met the requirements of doing so. For example, if Misaki begins her Activation and unburies in Nix’s Diseased aura, she would still gain Blight because her ability resolved within his aura and it is still Step C1, the Start of Activation. There has not been any evidence from the rules that has been cited so far in the threads about this that would support a reading that an ability can begin resolving in Step C1, finish resolving in Step C1, and yet not cause any other abilities to resolve that would be applicable in the same Activation Step. It would have to state so explicitly as resolving Start of Activation abilities in that manner would be contrary to how abilities are resolved at every other Step.

@LeperColony I do understand your position quite well. You are arguing that the effects are generated at Start of Activation (C1) and then resolved at a different Step (C2). This is not stated in the game, and as far as I am aware, no other effects in the game resolve in such a manner. Furthermore, your position cannot escape being involved with checking game effects as the Start of Activation abilities resolve, as I stated above. If C1 is where the abilities are generated, and you are not arguing that they resolve in Step C2 or in a weird resolution purgatory that is neither C1 nor C2 (either of which is creating new rules in the game btw), then as the abilities resolve it would still be C1 (Start of Activation). This means that any other effects still applicable at that timing Step would resolve ie if Misaki unburies in Nix’s Diseased aura she is gaining Blight.

I don’t think you can reasonably argue that the Ferdinand loop “breaks” the game when the loop is clearly limited by how many cards you have in your hand. I do think the loop is unintended. As to your point about us only interpreting start of activation as a phase since it is not explicitly described as such, that is true. We interpret it as such since in every other phase of the game you constantly check for new game states and effects. This interpretation is line with how the rest of the game is played, and I would argue, much more likely to be correct than the opposite view which relies on making up new rules for the game entirely.

PDF pg. 12

Plague- Benny Wolcomb

@Jesy Blue Regarding your reason for edit about Shockwaves and Yasunori: I believe Resistance Triggers only work on Opposed Duels and though Shockwaves are Attack Actions, they generate Simple Duels. Consequently, models affected by them cannot declare any Resistance Triggers.

Thanks for the constructive criticism, and the tips. Sometimes I get blinded by the magical Christmas dreamland scenario and don’t take into account what will actually work.

Engineer's bonus gives him Shielding 2 and Heal 1. Also, Drachen can help with the Burning and Lazarus can Assimilate his Bury. As to why, I like to tinker with OOK models and see if they work. I think it is a holdover from deck building in TCGs.

Has anyone had any luck with Talos out of keyword? I kinda wanted to try him out in a Freikorps crew, but he seems so SLOW that it doesn’t seem worth it.

Thanks for adding that! Also, I think the Rat King would still have Focused +1 because the Focused condition is given to all the Rats before the tangling happens. Wouldn’t each Rat resolve the 3” move before any 1 Rat can take its queued action, or am I misunderstanding? Edit: To clarify, I have always understood Unclean Influence with the Direct Control trigger resolving such that each Vermin in range first moves 3”, then each Rat gains Focused +1, and then each Vermin takes its queued Action. This is based off of my understanding of Actions Generated by Effects (pg.34 PDF).

I have to agree with this. Just started trying it out but his great Mv combined with Diving Charge and Rocket Boots just make him absurd. Looking at his damage read out as well makes me think he is supposed to act as a Scheme Runner/Hunter when not handing out equipment. In Idols I have experimented with taking SoDP on Von Schill because being able to heal all 3 wounds for killing an enemy after moving an Idol seems funny.

I would recommend it as I have enjoyed the Nothing Beast with Hamelin for just that reason. Don’t forget Storm of Shadows doesn’t need to be used just defensively either. Putting up Concealment near enemies who like to target one another applies a decent amount of pressure to their resources.

I am not following your logic. Unclean Influence gives each Vermin an Action to take so in the example I am using it is used in range of 4 Rats meaning that each Rat would then get 1 Action queued. My question concerns what happens if the first Rat uses its Action to tangle together and create a Rat King whilst the other Rats still had an Action queued. It is still considered the same model, and each Rat still had an Action queued, so would it be allowed to take the queued Actions? The only rules reference I can see that would pertain to this would be Step 4 of the Replace rules, but I am not sure if this would fall under that: "If the new and original models belong to the same Crew, the new model becomes the target of any effects that targeted or chose the original model, such as Schemes, Leader designation, or lasting game effects. The new model is always considered a legal target for those effects." What I think you are quoting is Step 7 which pertains to what to do if the Rat King is made during the Rats own Activation, so Unclean Influence would not fall under that. No wording exists in the rules, as far as I am aware, that states that queued Actions only carry over to Replaced models if the original model was replaced during its own activation. I do agree that it should not be able to take the queued Actions, but I see nothing in the rules that back that interpretation up.

@solkan Sorry, I could have worded that more clearly. I was going to ask what happens when you use Unclean Influence on 4 Rats and the first Rat tangles together. Does the resulting Rat King get 3 more Actions to take (1 for each pending action that was remaining between the Rats), or does it take no more Actions as it is already considered to have take one with the tangle Action?

I have always played it as if at least one Rat is Activated when they tangle together outside of Activation, the Rat King is considered Activated. Regarding the quoted section, I was actually going to post this to the Rules Forum to see, as I can see someone using Step 4 of the Replace rules (PDF pg. 32) to argue that you can do just that. I hope you wouldn’t be able to as that seems broken.

That is quite the Pauline sentence ya got there...

I think Reva and her crew were released at Gen Con in 2016.

When I play Von Schill I almost never use his ability for Focus as his hand is already stressed enough. I usually hire Freikorpsmann, Librarians, and Engineers as their guns/damage are pretty decent with the suits built-in. I find my hand much less taxed this way and the minions to be pretty flexible. Keep in mind though, I have been Lured away by Hamelin this edition and have to force myself to play something else so my experience with Von Schill is much smaller. Edit: Leveticus’ crew seems like it would be a nightmare for the Freikorps as the Amalgams have access to so much irreducible damage.

How have I never noticed that? That is a very odd cost discrepancy... Did you miss the Prospector at all?

First Impressions My first thought on seeing my wife's crew is that Hans will not have free reign to shoot whom he pleases as he is limited to Misaki, Shang, Sun Quiang, and any summoned Katashiro. I know my wife's preference for giving Explosives to Misaki and Yamaziko so I expected that they would split up and focus on planting them when Misaki is not carving up my crew. My wife's decision to pay for dual copies of Silent Protector for her Torakage was surprising given that my Rat Kings can close the distance so well and have Onslaught. Sun Quiang was also surprising to see, though upon further thought the Last Blossom keyword does have a number of place effects to trigger King of Medicine and they would likely appreciate Bedside Manner. Misaki had the tools to greatly minimize the impact of Winged Plague, by killing them, or my Rat Kings, by knocking them below half health. My only concern at this point beyond my Turn 1 set up is to kill Shang, likely with Hans, as that will reduce Misaki's positional flexibility and rob her of 4 cards over the course of the game due to the lack of Arcane Reservoir. Game Summary My Wife was the attacker and I chose for her to deploy her group of Misaki, Shang, Sun Quiang, and Yamaziko. I deploy my forces in a large bubble on the left half of the table because my deployment had a building right smack in the middle of the edge of deployment. I make sure to deploy Hans where he can see Shang. She deploys the rest of her forces. Turn 1 is mostly me doing my set up and her maneuvering. I started with only 1 ram in hand which meant that unless Shang moved forward I could not guarantee that Hans could kill him. This was complicated by the fact that Shang's large MV stat could allow him to maneuver behind a couple buildings out of LOS about mid-board. After doing my set up and ending with 5 Rats (2 from my self-exploding Stolen and 3 from Benny) I had 2 Rams in hand, and was biding my time to kill Shang as I had yet to see the Black Joker despite going through a decent chunk of my fate deck. Misaki unburied at this time and used Lightning Strike 3 times on a group of Hamelin, Benny, 2 Rats, and a Winged Plague. By the end of the duels Hamelin and Benny had each taken two damage, I had go down a Rat, and cycled some cards whilst she was able to place a Shadow Marker in the middle of my bubble. Still no Black Joker... I finally decided to activate Hans and used Reference the Field Guide and a Red Joker to hit Shang for min damage 4. Following this, a foolish Torakage double walked near Hamelin and Challenged him (which finally turned over my Black Joker) since I had only two cards in hand. Hamelin then shrugged, lured the Torakage over, and hit him repeatedly with his Staff until the Torakage was at Blight 4 and Injured 4. He then used Unclean Influence to maneuver my Vermin into safer positions, have my first Rat King drop a Scheme Marker, and have my second Rat King kill the Torakage. Minako walked and summoned. My Fast Rat King walked, Interacted, and then exploded into a Rat Catcher to get me a card. Yamaziko triple walked at some point over to my table half and the Rat Catcher Concentrated and used his bonus to move my Rats. Turn 2 was very eventful so I do not remember the sequence of events well. Basically my Hamelin led a bubble of Winged Plague and Rats to engage the other Torakage, Sun Quiang, and a Katashiro to gain Blight and use it for Festering Wounds. Yamaziko was placing Explosives at her leisure and Hans killed a Katashiro that was trying to claw up one of my Winged Plagues. Misaki did not have the best of luck as she unburied near a Fast Rat King and proceded to use her entire activation to only deal 2 damage. The Rat King proceded to retaliate by dealing a total of 13 damage back to her through Onslaught Triggers (no cheating from my hand required) which was reduced to only 9 damage after prevention. Benny ate a Marker for Fast and then walked over to the pile of Festering Scheme Markers to gain 5 Rats. Minako walked to Hamelin to Deliver a Message. A Winged Plague died at some point. The Rat Catcher turned Misaki into a Rat (which gave my remaining Rat King 2 Explosives) and that is the end of Turn 2. Score: 2-1 (My Rat King had dropped his Explosive with Unclean Influence. My wife considered conceding as she was now down to only 4 models (Minako, Yamaziko, Torakage, and Sun Quiang) and I had 13 models (Hamelin, 2 Stolen, Benny, Hans, Rat King, Rat Catcher, Winged Plague, 5 Malifaux Rats). We decide to keep playing and go to Turn 3, which didn't end up lasting very long. She could not afford to use her large swath of Pass Tokens as both her Torakage, and Sun Quiang, were half dead. Through my massive action advantage I was able to outmaneuver her and score Dig on Sun Quiang and get another 3 Markers for Harness down. At that point we called the game. We discussed it and the likely score would have been 8-3 as she had too few models for counterplay left. Takeaways My first takeaway is that using Benny's engine requires an even great mastery of positioning than regular Hamelin. My second takeaway is that writing my limited BatReps is going to be much more difficult as there are so many more models to keep track of and this one is flaming hot garbage. Benny's engine was very fun to use and seemed to be powerful, though the schemes allowed him the chance to use my wife's markers against her. I actually liked the Winged Plague in this list a lot, and would struggle to bring a Prospector instead. In this list the Winged Plague can basically refund themselves in Rats whilst cautiously moving up the board. Due to Wanted Criminal I was able to more reliably give my Kings Fast, and I was able to kill Sun Quiang with Vomiting Disease. It also allowed me the flexibility to blow up my other Stolen Turn 1 for more Rats. I think I made the right call in hiring a King to use a bunch of Actions Turn 1 before exploding into a Rat Catcher to move my Rats. Hans was a rockstar this game, though I think that is mostly due to my wife's unfamiliarity with the model. He was staring at Shang for several Activations before my hand was sculpted to kill him and in future games I think she will very clearly see my intent. My biggest takeaway is that I... love... this... list! I think I will try different variants from now on to iron out any kinks. As an aside, I actually really like Benny's sculpt. Whilst ugly as all get out, his sculpt really oozes character in a way that reminds me of the Wyrd Metals that I prefer. Sorry for having you readers slog through all of this but hope you found some enjoyment! Shalom!

My wife decided to surprise me with an unplanned game of Malifaux last night for my birthday so I actually have something to talk about. The Scenario *Plant Explosives- Standard Harness the Leyline Claim Jump Deliver a Message Dig Their Graves Power Ritual My Crew Mischief In The Confectionery Size: 50 - Pool: 6 Leader: *Hamelin Servant of Dark Powers Totem(s): Stolen Wanted Criminal Stolen 2 Wanted Criminal Stolen 3 Hires: *Benny Wolcomb Hans *Rat King *Rat King 2 Winged Plague *Winged Plague 2 My Wife’s Crew Team Ninja Strike! Size: 50 - Pool: 7 Leader: **Misaki Katanaka Totem(s): Shang Hires: *Minako Rei Trained Ninja **Yamaziko Trained Ninja Sun Quiang Torakage Silent Protector Torakage 2 Silent Protector Pre-game Plan I chose Harness and Dig because I had all the available Actions needed to Drop the Scheme Markers. Corpses from Stolen and Rat Kings could also be controlled by me to Drop where needed to set up an easy Dig Their Graves. I cannot score the 2nd point of Deliver on Misaki, Claim Jump didn’t have anybody likely to live at all, and I don’t trust the Winged Plagues to make it across the board for Power Ritual. I chose my list to try out Benny for the first time. Since he can use Woozy Rat to Drop an enemy Marker I gave my favorite two Stolen Wanted Criminal for the extra card draw. The Focus from Swagger could also make them more reliable with Vomiting Disease and Moldy Cheese. The other Stolen would blow himself up. Benny is supposed to make 3 Rats Turn 1 and move up the board. Afterwards he would focus on counter scheming. My Vermin were chosen because of Unclean Influence and needing additional Actions for Loyal Rats. The Winged Plague can Drop 2 Markers more reliably than a Prospector because Unclean Influence is more reliable than needing a 6+ of crows. I chose 2 Rat Kings over a Rat King and a Rat Catcher again because of Unclean Influence. I figured that the best case scenario for a hired Rat Catcher was to walk twice and use his bonus to move Rats but that seems like a waste when compared to a hired Rat King. The Rat King can be made Fast and do all sorts of shenanigans before using an Action to kill itself and net me a Rat Catcher. I get far more value in Actions this way, a card, and a Corpse at the low cost of 1 additional stone and a Pass Token for my opponent. Hans was chosen because of Reference the Field Guide and his dual role as a damage dealer and a condition bot. His gun is also very reliable in that it ignores Cover, Concealment, and Friendly Fire whilst being able to extend its range through Sniper. Cohesively this crew is very flexible with its options after its brief Turn 1 set up. In addition, this list pressures my hand very little. The key actions I want to get off are Unclean Influence (4), Woozy Rat (6), and Loyal Rats (8). Fast from Moldy Cheese (10) is a bonus, though not actually necessary; and it can occur more frequently due to Swagger. In addition, I don’t care for any suit in particular as I am diving headlong into Rats instead of hoarding crows for Taint for Bleeding Disease. This low hand pressure, combined with the good amount of card draw available (5 cards from Expendable and Protection Money), means I can afford to discard more often for Nihilism, Sack O’ Rats, and Reference the Field Guide and/or just start widening the resource disparity between my opponent and myself more quickly. Well... I am tired and out of time. I will get to the actual game later. Happy November! Shalom! P.S. Ain’t my wife just the best?

We have Freikorpsmann, Hans, and Taelor for Ruthless.

I feel that the Scout doesn’t have that unique of a role within he Freikorps and as such it is not worth the opportunity cost of hiring one vs something else. His claim to fame is that he has a more reliable gun in that it ignores Cover, Friendly Fire, and Concealment. The damage track is very average at 2/3/5 though so if you hit then you haven’t accomplished much. A better alternative for that damage is a Librarian. She has less range but is not hindered by the gun icon, can build in her suits for blasts and much needed card draw, and can move friendlies around. Even at the same Soulstone cost it is hard to reach for the Scout. For example, the Engineer can boast a more threatening with min damage 3 because he can build in Critical Strike, albeit at 2” less range. When the Engineer is not busy shooting people he can also buff his allies whilst cycling a card and has a melee attack that can ignore armor, or give out injured. Again, why choose a Scout when he is so vanilla and mediocre in design when compared to these other options that provide much more to the crew. My proposed errata of an additional trigger, or additional attack action, to give out Adversary would help with the Crew’s resource drain. The proposed errata to immediately attach an upgrade after deployment means he can at least begin threatening with a Rocket Launcher Turn 1 without forcing Von Schill to devote Actions to upgrade him. Each of these proposals make him a little more thematic in my opinion as well.

I would love if the Scout had an errata to get another action, or a trigger, to give out Adversary (Freikorps). Either that or errata him to attach a piece of equipment after he is deployed.