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  1. Schemes & Stones (Blog) Wave 5 Yan Lo

    If you are 1 VP behind, your opponent has to score an equal amount of schemes for you to maximize your summons. If you score on both your schemes and the strategy while your opponent only scores on 1 scheme and the strategy, you'll only get 1 summon due to the timing rulings as explained by Khyodee. End of Game schemes can be stopped a whole lot easier than continuous schemes. GG17 has Covert Breakthrough, Search The Ruins and Hidden Trap as End of Game schemes. These can all be stopped rather easily and your opponent can also pick these schemes as well. The only truly useful Asami summon is Yokai and very situational an Obsidian Oni, Tengu or Jorogumo. Jorogumo can be good if you summon him in on Turn 4 with 2 Flicker so he can be annoying on Turn 5. If you don't have that scrap lying around or took the Borrowed Time upgrade, Jorogumo is effectively a waste of a 13. Obsidian Oni can get your scrap engine started, but he also needs that Flicker +1 to get going or he isn't really worth it over the offensive mlght of a Yokai. We'll have to see what the Book 5 upgrades do to this as the Emissary can now allow a Jorogumo to also get Flicker +1 while still remaining modestly survivable. Then again summoning a Jorogumo requires a 13, which is most certainly not a cheap prince. But enough about Asami here, it's the Yan Lo thread after all
  2. Schemes & Stones (Blog) Wave 5 Yan Lo

    Grant 3 free summons when you are behind. Being behind is the keyword on it. It pretty much always gives you a Tengu, Akaname or Yokai (1-2 VP difference) and they go poof really fast. Yokai might not even make it to the end of the turn where as the others can last for another 2 turns due to them being summoned after the Upkeep step. Yokai can get +3 Flicker thanks to his ability, but even then ... These summons come in slow so they have to be within 4" of Asami to do the charge to actually be useful the turn after they are summoned. Asami already has a hard time getting activation control due to the Flicker condition, so I could see it actually working like that. Also don't forget that the opposing crew has to score VP for you to get your summon. If they do something like Frame For Murder that scores all points instantly, you can kiss 1 summon per turn goodbye. Whether or not it was the intention does not matter if the rules allow it. Thesame thing can be said for Huggy with the card discard upgrade. Probably not intended and very toxic to actually enforce, yet it's never been errata'd and the current rules allow it to work. This is why I'd like to get an actual reply to this question ASAP as it's affecting multiple masters already and could mean a major difference in power for those masters. Perhaps @Aaron could shed some light on how this interaction is supposed to work? Just to be clear, I'm in the camp that's it's not intended to work like this. The current rulings and ambiguous wording however make it difficult to contest as both sides have supporting arguments and it comes down to a subjective interpretation of certain mechanics. Pretty much a nightmare for any judge/henchman to rule on as you can completely destroy a game play with either call.
  3. Schemes & Stones (Blog) Wave 5 Yan Lo

    Devil's advocate here: we might have been misinterpreting Asami's upgrade card. The exact text is: "Note that VP earned at the end of a Turn are earned by both Crews simuntaneously." If we follow @Khyodee's steps pattern, it just means that each individual step is earned at thesame time and that Asami should get her 3 summons. Probably overthinking it, but nowhere does Asami's card say that ALL VP are earned simultaneously. It just said that for VP earned so you can't let your opponent calculate VP first and then base your summon off of that.
  4. Rising Sun Vs. Cheating Bastard

    Did you take the TCW as well? You mention not being scared of Huggy dying before Turn 3, so you took a TCW for Turn 4 onwards? The upgrade is indeed a really good 1ss value, but I'll never feel safe without being able to go for The Rising Sun in case of need.
  5. Titania and will o' wisps

    Or if the map favors Gorar and you can hide him behind a building. That way your opponent doesn't have much of a choice and killing a Tooth or Rougarou takes up quite a chunk of AP. Either way you win because your priority minions stay alive longer. I really don't get why people hate Gorar so much as I've always seen him as a solid choice thanks to the synergy that Tooth/Rougarou has with Titania. Yes, he can be completely useless. As mentioned before, if he's useless, he's probably doing something right for you
  6. 50ss Dreamer

    Tried my hand at a summoning Dreamer here because he shines here. The reason for this is due to outactivating your opponent and Reconnoiter is heavily skewed towards summoners. I would take something like: Dreamer (6 soulstones) Dreams of Pain Otherworldly On Wings of Darkness Daydream x3 Widow Weaver A Thousand faces Handbag Teddy A Thousand Faces Mysterious Emissary Conflux of Nightmares My reasoning is rather simple. You start with 7 activations and all the schemes allow you to stay in the back of the map. Going forward is not encouraged at all! You barely have to move Dreamer, so he can spend all his AP on summoning on Turn 1. I suggest getting Lelu and Lilitu out. You'll probably sacrifice a Daydream for that, so you'll go up to 8 activations. If you decide to spend your third AP on resummoning the lost Daydream, you'll be on 9 AP. The Emissary can also summon a changeling on a scheme marker, so you might want to do that too if the cards allow it. You can go up to 10 activations like this. He can also place down Hazardous Terrain, which is again bad news for your opponent as you will have Lilitu with a ca7 lure. 1/4/5 damage is no joke and can do major damage while giving a ton of zone control. This is not risky at all unless the opponent has a crazy alpha strike lined up for you. You'll have to see that for yourself. The Widow Weaver has Handbag in case you get a lot of corpse and scrap on the board so you can summon a second Teddy in. You can drop Handbag and replace it with another upgrade if you don't like it. It can be great, but it can also be worthless. The 3 Dayrdreams are vital for a summoning Dreamer as they provide cheap activations while giving the push and you ABSOLUTELY NEED that sacrifice for a mask. Now for the scheme selection. You can do any scheme rather easily except for Undercover Entourage because you outactivative your opponent rather fast. FFM can work if he has a killing Henchman, but I think Accusation and Claim Jump will be better for you. Placing scheme markers near the centerline is rather safe for you as you outactivate and can just wait with a significant model until your opponent can't do anything against it. You'll have a massive advantage due to being able to commit your entire force, while your opponent can't. He'll have to keep at least 2 models on his own parts or else he won't score for the Strategy, while you can just keep summoning in reinforcements. If you summon 2 Insidious Madnesses on Turn 2, you'll be in a prime position for pretty much any scheme marker shenanigans starting from Turn 3. They have a pretty decent walk and a shot, so they can even threaten the models your opponent is keeping in the back. Lelu and Lilitu are a killer combination if you can pair them up with the Emissary's Hazardous terrain and they can be rather annoying to take down due to shared healing, regen and Lelu's Vampiric Bite. If you had the money though, I'd have rather put in The Tooth and Rougarou though. That would mean you would have had a deathball already hired and on the flank while the summoned Lelu and Lilitu can be used to keep The Dreamer safe and add additional pressure to your opponent. TL;DR The opponent has to come to you to deny schemes or score points, while you can stay in the back thanks to the 18" lure Lilitu gives you. I made a budget killer list to abuse the fact that he has to come to you. Please provide feedback on what you think of this list and how you would change/improve it.
  7. Rising Sun Vs. Cheating Bastard

    I actually did that in my last game, but he just becomes a bigger magnet to kill. Your opponent will try to get the jump on you, even if it's a suboptimal play for himself. Killing Huggy permanently is a huge drop in power for Lynch for any upgrade he's rocking. CB is the least affected ofcourse, but it still loses around 50% value. The downside to playing a safer Huggy is a more exposed Lynch. I took 3 stones this game and had to burn all 3 of them to keep Lynch alive. This also meant I couldn't swap back to The Rising Sun as I didn't have the stone difference anymore. You should always keep that in mind as well!
  8. Does the Red Joker count as a mask when it comes to revealing masks for the effect of Cheating Bastard? We've been playing it as not counting due to it not being an actual mask, but I'd like to be certain before I head off into a tourney with it. My reasoning for not counting is that the Red Joker only counts as any suit when you actually play it. While it's sitting in your hand, it's not being played.
  9. Rising Sun Vs. Cheating Bastard

    I've played a game against Zoraida with Cheating Bastard and a Terracotta Warrior. I got 3 amazing hands to boot (3x Red Joker) in the first 3 Turns, which meant cheating against me was incredibly hard. My plan was to swap CB out for The Rising Sun around Turn 3, but I just demolished my opponent before that happened due to amazing hands, some misplays from my opponent and some amazing luck. I'm thinking of combining CB with Mr. Tannen as that is just a completely nasty combo to do. Having to discard a card to cheat blind is an even greater discouragement and fairly extreme hand pressure. The main downside to playing with CB is that you're forced into taking a TCW in order to keep Huggy and the minions alive in case of need. You'll also need to bring some extra stones just to keep Huggy safe in case you misplayed or the opponent manages to suprise you and get the jump on Huggy. Losing Huggy is extremely painful as you have an entire flank that you can't use CB on anymore. The main upside is that you get the benefits from CB and schemes like Hidden Trap, Dig Their Graves, ... become a lot easier. I activated my Lynch early on Turn 2 and 3 in order to blast Zoraida away, while keeping Lynch alive with stones and CB. Don't forget that CB makes it very annoying to attack Lynch as you have to cheat first AND take damage when you cheat against Lynch. Unless your opponent is sure he can make the attack go through, he will most likely not cheat the attack. I'll be testing it some more as I liked it. What I didn't like is that the TCW feels like such dead weight in comparison to the Ten Thunders Brother. My TCW didn't to anything besides using his 1 action to try and protect stuff and walk. He managed to net me 2 VP thanks to Guard The Stash (1 Wound FTW GOGO Armor!!), but a Brother could have also done Claim Jump together with that, while making better use of the aces Lynch has. My next game will be testing out Tannen, Graves, TCW and CB and hope it somehow manages to be viable
  10. 50ss Dreamer

    Just going to react on this on the top of my head. I'll look at some lists later to give you some guidelines. I'll make a seperate reply for it, unless this reply is still the last in the thread. 1. Hidden trap requires a scheme marker near an enemy unit. It does not specify that you need a different scheme marker for every enemy unit. Best case scenario would be 3 units next to 1 marker. I think you mixed it up a bit in how you read the description, unless Crewfaux made a mistake in the app which I'm using right now. 2. Could you list the models you have in your possession right now? Your first post mentions a shopping list, so I'm trying to cut costs a bit. If this is your first exploration of the Neverborn faction, summoning Dreamer might be a bit expensive to go for. When I bought my Dreamer, I paid around €150 to get the crew I wanted and most of his summoning options. 3. If you don't have any models yet or want to buy some good additional models, it would be great if you could let me know what direction you're taking your Neverborn. I have experience with several masters, but not all of them. I'll keep your future direction in mind when selecting additional models for puchase if you so choose.
  11. 50ss Dreamer

    Has 9 posts, has been playing for several years and claims winning tourneys and being top 3 on national ranking of ... ??? Let me just get a bag of salt with that grain of salt I already have. I never claimed Pukey is more resilient than daydreams. He's a mobile scheme walker, so he shouldn't be getting in a killable position to begin with. Daydreams on the other hand aren't worth anything for this crew unless they can use their -wp aura, you somehow need 3-4 pushes that turn or you are desperate for activation control. Not worth it for 1-2 turns? This forum has more than enough people that would disagree with you on that. 2 turns alone equals 1 stone of value, so you'd have an even better deal on him. Dreamer is also in a special position as he can summon his own totems. There's not too many masters that can do that. You can even argue that it would be better to do with Beater Dreamer as you can summon them right where they need to be and still get waking up. Meanwhile Pukey has been giving you Rush of Magic and a possible VP. But yeah, not worth it, right? ... Standing nearby will deny his scheme marker stuff? Any reason why you can't just ... idk ... walk with the model? Assuming you didn't screw up your activation order ofcourse, but a TOP 3 NATIONAL PLAYER should be able to at least do that.
  12. 50ss Dreamer

    Masks summon Alps, so that's only needed if you've hit the Daydream cap or want to summon an Alp specifically. I know they have their uses, but in general Beater Dreamer doesn't really need the Alps. I agree with you here. It's hard to tell the difference. I come from Ten Thunders, who are renowned for their pushing prowess. I switched to Neverborn because pushing is very situational and I find it a whole lot more situational worth than PM who is pretty much always worth it. I support your way of looking at PM and DtG, but there have been voices that do allow PM to count for that. Depends on your local judge I guess? Removing PM is also fairly easy, but it's harder to deny PM to count as the scheme marker than placing one of the floor. You can only remove PM by killing, burying, ... while there are plenty of actions that can remove scheme markers without an opposing duel. That was more the point I was trying to make, but I didn't explain it enough it seems.
  13. 50ss Dreamer

    You can't summon Madness if you're playing Beater Dreamer. Keep in mind this thread is all about Beater Dreamer. Does Beater Dreamer require the masks? Pushes are great, but can they score you VP? Daydreams are extremely squishy. If something even just looks at them, they pretty much die. In order to get their -wp debuff, they have to be close to the opponent. They won't last long like that. Calling puke snake a waste of 2 stones for 2 draw-discard and a free scheme marker makes me wonder how good your understanding of the game actually is. The 2 draw/discard is worth a stone already and the scheme marker can get you a VP is used correctly. It's also harder to stop PM from getting that VP as he doesn't need to use an action to place down the marker. You can just double walk somewhere and count him IF YOU NEED TO. Another model might do a walk and drop a marker and then the opponent runs away (Dig Their Graves) or removes the marker somehow and you just wasted an action. Good old Pukey makes sure that something like that doesn't happen.
  14. 50ss Dreamer

    Puke Snake is really solid even if you only keep it 1-2 turns. It can help you get any scheme marker scheme while providing card cycle. Once you used it, you can then summon daydreams with Dreamer in case of need. Don't forget that also gives Waking, so it could be a safer route to get that last Waking you need to summon Chompy. Beater Dreamer is less reliant on the -wp as he's not summoning in models that abuse it and he can always summon them in. As far as I know he doesn't need the mask either, so their main benefit would be free activations. While those are also strong, the card cycle from Pukey combined with the scheme marker stuff net it a slight win. Do note that my own list looks rather different than what is described in this topic as I'm keeping it close to Dreamer to limit costs for different playstyles.
  15. 50ss Dreamer

    Pretty hard question tbh, because you usually tailor lists depending on the strat and schemes. But on we go! I'm following @(Keenan) and removing the Stitched Together. There are lists that can abuse it, but your name is not Lynch and that's quite a bit deal for these guys! 6 stones for this guy doesn't feel good when you already have a card-hungry crew, which means you'll have to throw high cards away or focus to get stuff done. Even then he can still hit himself and cause damage to your crew if he's in the middle of your own crew. Not recommended in this crew, unless you have some hidden strategy I can't see. I'd also follow you on removing the Daydreams and getting the Primordial Magic. Daydreams are less important for the bruiser-styled Dreamer and getting Rush of Magic means you can cycle a bad card out of your deck, which means you have some sort of card advantage right out of the box! This means you already have the 8 stones you need for the Weaver, so you can take some upgrades on your other models. Giving Teddy A Thousand faces can be really good so he can be anti-armor in case of need (Retribution's Eye), heal more (Malifaux Provides) or get more annoying to hit (The Mimics Blessing) which is great. you can also take Fears Given Form (start with A Thousand Faces) on the Widow Weaver and combine her up with Teddy on a flank. Not recommended, but viable and a layer of protection for the Weaver. Why not viable? You already have Lelu and Lilitu together to hold a flank for you. Lelu gets +1 defense thanks to gis upgrade, which makes him finally worth a hire slot IF you combine him with Lilitu. Getting a 4" pounce on Lelu/Lilitu or getting + flips on all duels for both is very strong. Getting low on wounds? Lelu's Vampiric Bite can heal both models up really fast. Need tankiness? Lilitu's + flips on everything on def 6 WILL make your opponent cheat cards to get through. Let me note that there are better options for a crew than any of the models you have mentioned here, but they have a lot less synergy with The Dreamer's other playstyles. I'm valuaing Dreamer synergy high for the OP s this is his first Neverborn list and some optimal options require buying a second crew box (Titania for her Knights is a supremely good choice). An example would be to replace Lelu and Lilitu with the Tooth and Rougarou combo, which is a whole lot stronger. It does require the Titania box and Rougarou, while not having any possible buffs from Dreamer. No fast/heals/push/whatever which can come in clutch. Another example would be the Obsidian Madness. Most of the time a Gupp can do what is needed from the Obsidian Madness, which is scheme running. I'm also a fan of Nekima and try to find a spot for her in a lot of my lists, but there are reasons why you shouldn't get her this fast in Neverborn. This is what I would change given that it's OP's first Neverborn list and I'm trying to max his Dreamer Synergy in case he decides to go for other styles such as Summoning or Shooting Dreamer later on.