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InvokeChaos last won the day on April 24

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  1. Dawn Serpent or Whiskey Golem

    I would also raise the point of "whichever one you like the most aesthetically." I would say of the 2, Dawn Serpent would get more work done because of ranged, burning, blasts, and high stat value. But the Whiskey Golem is a Whiskey Golem! If you are concerned about overall effectiveness, I would indeed look to a different beater that can bring more craziness to the party. You can also look at that 10ss slot as a tech piece... swapping in what you need based off what you are fighting. Izamu/Yasunori if you need a lot of attacks with some beef. Kang if you need to bypass armor. Serpent if you want some more ranged value. Etc. Jorogumo is a fair pick here as well because it is HtW, HtK, has eat your fill, is min dam 3 and can have 3 attacks. Putting your opponent on negatives helps ensure it does the dirty even with that middling Ml5. As to the terracotta, upgrade conversation. I personally take the upgrade because I'm guaranteed to take Misdirection on Brewie. I've always found it invaluable and I like to play a bit more forward with him. And I never consider terracotta a waste of points. I always want a 5ss slot and he's a solid piece for it. Maybe not as good as a 10T bros or Yokai, but that really more depends on your schemes. And wesley is pretty damned awesome. So for me it's not really a waste of SS to pull this trick, and I like access to wesley in my brewie list.
  2. New Oni - Fan-made

    So I was originally going to attempt to go for the design position open at Wyrd... but after a lot of really thinking about it... I determined that my personal life doesn't allow me the ability to uproot and move to Marietta. Not saying I would even have gotten the job... but that was a major requirement. I will have to keep dreaming! Anyways, I'd already designed the model I wanted to submit... and it seemed a waste to just design it and do nothing with it. So I thought I'd post it here in case someone wants to use it. Hope someone gets some joy out of it! PAINTED DEMON – 7ss Oni, Minion Df 5 / Wp 6 / Wd 6 / Wk 5 / Cg 6 / Ht 2 Mesmerizing Skin – Ml attacks from enemy models against this model suffer (negative flip). Hard to Kill Attack Actions (1) Ink-Covered Claws (Ml 6/ Rst: Df / Rg: 1): Target suffers 2/4/5 damage. Cruel Slash: This attack’s damage cannot be reduced. (1) Wreath of Onibi (Ca 5 / TN: 10 / Rst: Wp / Rg: 10): Target model gains the Slow condition. “Such beautiful lights...”: After succeeding, push target model up to 3” towards this model. Tactical Actions (0) Life-like Tattoos: Discard a non-joker card. This model gains one of the following effects, as determined by the discarded card: Mark of the Kitsune: Push this model up to 5” in any direction. Mark of the Gyuki: Until the end of the turn, enemy models damaged by this model’s attacks gain Poison +1 condition. Mark of the Kasha: Until the end of the turn, enemy models damaged by this model’s attacks gain the Burning +1 condition. Mark of the Reiki: Until this model's next activation, this model gains the Spirit Characteristic and Incorporeal. 40mm base Design Notes Concept – I wanted to create a model in the 7-8ss range that could be used to enable some of our other Oni/faction tricks, thus being enticing to bring in other crews. I wanted minor synergies with each master as well, if possible. Lastly, I was looking for a way to incorporate the ability to deal with armor, as that is a major roadblock for 10T in general. I really liked the idea that it had a moving diorama of tattoos on it, and based its ability around that. I also thought it might be neat for painters to get the model knowing that there are tattoos that belong on it (like Shen and Yu). Stats – I don’t feel there is anything standout about the stat line here other than the wounds. I intentionally kept them a tad low (as well as keeping Df5) to compensate for Mesmerizing Skin, Hard to Kill and the fact that it’s 7ss. Lots of 5s and 6s in Thunders, so I felt no reason to deviate for this model. I left the WP a bit higher as a 5/5 seemed too light for it’s cost. Mechanics - My initial design route with this model was to make it an enforcer/henchman and create “tattoo” upgrades that it could equip that gave it various benefits. I quickly abandoned it. I tried putting triggers on the attack action (tattooing its enemies) but that felt kind of weird and not in the flavor I intended. So, I changed it to a zero action that triggered on a discard. It felt cleaner. I imposed that restriction to help keep the model’s ability in check. 10T brothers flip a random card for an effect and it’s potent if not chaotic. I didn’t want that level of randomness. Nor lack of cost. Plus, the Lynch synergy was a nice bonus. It also allowed me to make this model a minion so it could be summoned. Each of the tattoos represent another Oni type and I tried to choose abilities that were representative of their mark. The two attack actions I knew I wanted to be one damaging, one condition dealing. I wanted to bring another bit of Oni flavor to this model in the form of “demon lights”, a trait in Asian mythology that indicated something was of the other world. In Japanese mythos, the Onibi are basically will-o-wisps, so I wanted to give them a small lure (mask trigger felt appropriate) and handing out slow seemed both effective and flavorful to the concept of an Oni that has hypnotic features. I chose reduction over ignores armor because there are a few abilities (including in the mirror match) that I wanted to be able to bypass, and for 7ss and a 2/4/5 track, I didn’t feel that was overpowered. Though I left it built-in because I wanted counterspell to matter. A couple of master notes: Asami gains an moderately aggressive summon that has more utility and accuracy then the jorogumo, at the cost of survivability. The Painted Oni can be taken down quickly. I wanted it to be able to make an impact regardless of it popped in and flickered out and the slow cast does exactly that. The idea of being able to summon one with an Obsidian Oni and have a little combo there felt great without being too good. McCabe grants some much needed survivability to the Painted Oni and giving this model reactivate allows it to potentially hand out a lot of slow, thus enabling McCabe’s net gun/AP control style of play. This may be too good, but as I feel his net gun is fairly underused, I was willing to keep it as is. Yan Lo’s Fury of the Yomi was why I added in the spirit characteristic to the Tattoo of the Reiki. Not only was it flavorful (Reiki are spirit Oni), but made the minion a bit more useful in a Yan crew.
  3. How to Fix High River Monks

    Very fair, my friend. I really like that second concept. An ability that lets them call the flame to them and then re-purpose it. It's thematically very cool. I'm just going to suck all the burning from you three and then GIVE IT TO OUR ENEMIES!!! Or use it for my own gains. Thematic it after Calls Unto the Chi? Stealing your triggers @Tokapondora I modified slightly just for power reasons and change a name to reduce repetition of the word fire. the highlighted text is clunky but I like the concept so left it. (0) Calls Unto the Flame (Ca 5 / TN: 12): Move the full value of the Burning condition from each model within 6 to this model. You may discard a card. If you do, lower the value of the Burning condition on this model by 2 and gain the effect of a trigger matching the discarded card's suit. The Phoenix Rises: Heal 3 damage on this model. And All Will Burn: Until the end of the Turn, this model adds to all their final duel totals Scattered in the Wind: Place this model within 5" of its current location. Clad in Embers: After succeeding, this model gains the following Condition until the end of the Turn: "Ablaze: If a model deals damage to this model it gains the Burning +2 condition." Then add a 1AP cast to redistribute it: (1) Anointed by the Fire (Ca 6 / Rst: Df / Rg: 8) - Move the full value of the Burning condition from this model to the target. Like Wildfire: If the value moved was 4 or greater, this model gains the Reactivate condition.
  4. How to Fix High River Monks

    Even with this restriction, being able to have a minion gain reactivate for so low a cost breaks too many things. You get effectively 4ap from that model every turn, making it one of the most effective scheme runners we have. Especially considering the 2nd activation they are free to use Wander the Earth. They basically become a firm contestant against yokai at that point, who with their flicker mechanic and triggers can emulate the 4ap concept. Shenlong plays with a 9 card hand and makes that cost basically trivial, but can also fast and push them. It's just too much. I like this idea, but wording becomes a problem. Plus removing burning so easily slaps the concept of burning in the face. It normally takes 1AP to remove a condition, and you could potentially remove 4 condtions on a 0... then gain 2AP, then gain crazy trigger effects. And nothing says you can't do the ability again. While it might be removing damage you've put on, it could also just be removing damage your opponent put on as well. I agree that reactivating a bad minion doesn't change it from being a bad minion, but that's WAY too good, haha. I'd use it, though...
  5. Thoughts on Brewie and Yan Lo - Synergies!

    He has a trigger that gains him Chi when he kills something with his primary attack (or inflicts severe damage) and that doesn't care if it's friend or foe.
  6. How to Fix High River Monks

    My concern is that they are a modification away from being insane. 0 to push for charges, 3 attacks on the charge, built in trigger for burning... I mean... As others have mentioned, if you make them 2/3/4, they are basically more singularly focused yokai. Add in HtK or Armor and they are basically more expensive 10T bros. That being said my initial look at a fix was indeed to give them 2/3/4 and HtK... but then they throw out 9pts of damage on a charge... and with proper positioning/target selection they could even survive to do it again. And that's too good at 6pts. If you look at burning in 10T it facilitates three interactions (correct me if I'm missing any) besides damage: High River Style's ability to inflate duel totals for damage Shadow Emissary's ability to lower defense on targets with burning Obsidian Oni's to damage on burning targets Honestly none of those is particularly interesting to me... so I'd probably want to go in some new direction. I think what would be neat is if they could "blow up" burning. Kind of like an expunge. But make it do something special like it hits all models for the burning amount in a 3" or something. Make it a trigger or something: (1) Over the Flames (Ml 6 / Rst: Df / Rg: 1): Target suffers 1/2/4 damage. Ignite: After damaging, the target gains the Burning +1 Condition for each in the final duel total. Combust: After damaging, the target suffers an amount of damage equal to it's current Burning condition value. All models within 3 suffer damage equal to this model's current Burning condition value. This damage counts as being caused by the Burning condition. Then end the condition. alternatively Combust: After damaging, all models in 3 suffers an amount of damage equal to this model's current Burning condition value. This damage counts as being caused by the Burning condition. Either way I'd make the HRM have: Saracenar's Plight: Reduce the damage this model suffers from the Burning condition to 0. So they are immune to their trigger.
  7. That is literally perfect and I appreciate such a thorough response. My apologies for missing this post when I searched!
  8. Bandidos Question

    And as others have mentioned, if you're going to buy the minions from a master set, generally it's better to buy the master set. There's only a few exceptions and really the only one I can think of off the top of my head are Yokai. I am buying a second box of Yokai because I need more than three for my Asami crew.
  9. Bandidos Question

    For the point cost you're probably better off with Winged Plague or Void Wretches. Void Wretches are ridiculously AP efficient for their points and potentially very hard to shift due to incorporeal and their Df going up with your hand size going down. They also move fast because of incorp (bypassing terrain). Winged Plagues don't do much beyond scheme running, but they have a solid tactical and are Wk6 with flight... so they get where you need them to go. Bandido's definitely have a better attack than the other two, but are only walk 5 with no movement shenanigans or terrain bypassing featuers. Run and Gun is neat, and so is Finish the Job, but I kind of feel they are better in a parker crew than others. Especially when you can save 2ss by hiring 2 void wretches which are faster and can hand out slow to your opponent. Being hard to shift on top of that.
  10. Morning Wyrdos! So Avra Cadavra says: After reducing an enemy living or undead target to 0 wounds, summon a Flesh Construct into base contact with the target before it is removed and the model places no corpse markers. Shieldbearer's Chosen ability says: If this model would be killed and it does not have a Soulbound Upgrade attached, it is not killed. It heals all damage and attaches a Soulbound upgrade ignoring all restrictions, then places a Corpse Marker in base contact with itself. What happens when the Shieldbearer is Expunged when Chosen hasn't been triggered yet? The Shieldbearer is never removed, and Avra Cadavra specifically says place the Flesh Construct before the target is removed. So would you not place the Flesh Construct? The first time in the game it happened, I thought that the Flesh Construct shouldn't be placed, but we rolled with it, he placed it, and I didn't place a corpse marker. It really didn't matter at that point (though I should have asked for a ruling then. I was kind of in the moment with my own strategies at the time). The second time I DID ask for a ruling because I really felt like that might be unintended and just wanted clarification. Our judge said that in his opinion no corpse marker would be dropped and no Flesh Construct would be summoned, but because he wasn't 100% certain, he said just do both to make it fair, but I told him I would ask here. So... do you still summon a Flesh Construct? As far as the corpse marker, I thought Avra Cadavra said you don't drop one from dying... but it just says don't place. Chosen says then you place. My grey area is the timing on that. If everything is triggering at the time the model is reduced to 0 wounds, would you resolve Avra's stuff first... Here's where my head is at: 1) Model is reduced to 0 wounds. 2) Avra Cadavra's condition is met 3) Shieldbearer's Chosen checks for killed state and that condition is met 4) What resolves first and what affects what? Do I resolve all of Chosen's affects first? Do I resolve all of Avra's first? If I resolve Chosen's first... then do I still get the corpse? Does it not matter because Avra says the model places no corpse markers, so even though it hasn't resolved yet it still applies? Not trying to argue one way or the other. Just making sure I got the nitty gritty down. Thanks for your patience and help.
  11. Guild vs. Specific Ramos Setup

    I typically see Arcing Screen and Arcane Reservoir on him in my meta. What's the third typically seen? Or do people take different upgrade packages entirely?
  12. Guild vs. Specific Ramos Setup

    Wait he can summon an electric creation? *goes and reads what the heck electrical summoning actually does* Well by jove, I don't know why I've never seen that upgrade taken before. Unless you are going hard melee or something, it seems like summoning an eletric creation is better than hiring one! Yeah but if he hits moderate (through cheating or what not) he one shots electric. So he could theoretically move up, summon, shoot, summon. Just would be potentially card intensive.
  13. Guild vs. Specific Ramos Setup

    Yeah I noticed that too... normally I see a joss or something with eletric creation getting nuked. @Legislat just for my own curiosity, what is your opponent's scrap generator? am I just missing something from the list?
  14. Torakage Effectiveness

    Addendum: i feel that there is a note that should be mentioned in regards to the fact that they are Last Blossom models and mercenaries. Now... i can't think of a situation i would spend 7 stones for them... but the last blossom thing has some validity. it's a themed crew to be sure, but with Jorogumo in the mix, a torakage or two while running a last blossom list has potential. Again, it's just not quite efficient enough compared to other choices. That all being said, play what you like! Nothing wrong with being thematic even if it's not optimized for greatness!
  15. Torakage Effectiveness

    Everything Nikodemus said... I personally never take them. Despite loving the ninja aesthetic. Too many other models in that price range eclipse it. Chiaki, Brothers, Yokai, Obsidian Oni, Illuminated for 1pt more... etc. Really the deciding factor is that they typically go down in 2 swings. And that's too fragile for me at 6 pts. They're as fragile as a Yokai without near the utility or efficiency. Note on that: 5wds vs 6wds. There is literally no difference unless armor is involved (or your dealing with min 1 damage). 3 hits from min 2. 2 hits from min 3+. Potentially 1 hit for most beater models. You really need to bring the goods if that's the case, and yokai bring the goods. Torakage do not. And 10T bros are ridiculous... they can go armor 1 on a trigger and df 7 with defensive. So they take like 3-4 hits to shift. That's one of the reasons they get so much good press.