hannibal

Kealios used a proxy model. I don't recognize the miniature line, sorry.

I'll second everything you've said. While I personally don't think leap is that great, because it requires you to flip/cheat a specific suit, and because these guys need to run in groups. Leaping a sabretooth cerberus: cool, because you really only need to cheat once. Having to cheat a bunch of these guys is a lot of cards. And yeah, I know there's a decent chance you'll get the suit, but I pretty much assume that if the model doesn't have the suit requirement I'm going to have to cheat. Makes planning easier that way. The other thing I'd say is that flurry can be quite nice. Just last night I used rapid fire twice, dropping a low card every time (both times I think it was a 1). I think flurry is perfect for when you have junk cards. Lastly, your numbers arguement is correct, if you plan to take that many. I was thinking of 3 necros vs 2 punk zombies. At that point, the discount doesn't net you a ton more models. But yeah, you take like 8 of the necros, that's a big jump compared to the 5 punk zombies you'd buy at that level. That being said, if you think Bolster undead is nice the with Necros, the punks would be running around with Cb9 (with a paired weapon!) and Df 7. Oy . . . Still, you make very good points.

So on a lark, I decided to take a Convict Gunslinger with Seamus (see the battle report against Pandora). I figured he would have enough "flair" for Seamus. And may I say "that jolly cad is jus' tha' sort who's worth knowing." :top:

Yeeeeeah, much of the world operates by just-in-time stocking like that. Your local grocery store does it, and if you have a Costco nearby they're the kings of that. I still say that FRP games just got hit with a supply shortage that exposed the weakness of that model.

So Kealios and I played last night, him taking Pandora and me proxying for Seamus. Kealios had: Pandora, Poltergeist, Doppleganger, Baby Kade, 2 Terror Tots, a Sorrow, and Teddy. I had: Seamus, Sybelle, 3 Belles, 2 Punk Zombies, and a Convict Gunslinger. We both drew the slaughter strategy. I took Army of the Dead and Bodyguard as my schemes (announcing both) while Kealios took Bodyguard and Kidnap (announcing). So in other words, the two crews were going to go straight at each other and this was going to be an 8 to 0 VP for somebody. I'll save you the blow-by-blow because the game essentially became a giant scrum in the center. The Belles used chain lures (like six of them plus two of sybelle's) to pull enemy models out of cohesion. The highlights include: --the Convict Gunslinger, suffering under Dementia, rapid firing on Teddy as a throw away action. . . and killing him. He kept getting masks, setting off Trigger Happy. Even with negative 3 flips, when you hit six times, that's a dead teddy. Literally, the 3rd shot from Rapid Fire was wasted because he got all six hits with his first two attacks. --The Convict Gunslinger putting Baby Kade down to 1 wound, but failing to kill him. Kade then followed up with Backstab and putting down the Convict. --Chain Lures bringing Pandora into the circle of pain: Seamus charged in, foolishly attacking Pandora and not the sorrow. So the hit went on the sorrow. But the next turn, Seamus goes first and prepares the alpha strike . . . and then kills Pandora himself. --Chain lures bringing a terror tot and doppleganger into the open where they could be killed by Seamus or the punk zombies. By the end of turn 4, the only thing left on the board for Pandora was baby Kade (with 1 wound left) while Seamus had only lost 1 punk zombie. Yeah . . . 8 to 0 VPs. Definate MVPs of the game goes to the belles. Their Lure and Distract are just freaking awesome. You need some follow-up thumping to go with it, which the punk zombies did quite well. But the Gunslinger is no slouch either. I can see why he's Rare 1. On the Pandora side, I have to say that the doppleganger is just a mandatory buy for Neverborn. Not so much for the mimic, but the Ill Omens. I mean it basically ensures you of going first when you need to. I think kealios had a good list, nice balance of Pandora's trickery plus some heavy hitting with teddy and potentially the terror tots. It's just . . . well, what can you do when a guy gets 6 hits from 2 attacks?:AR15firin

I'm assuming you're choosing between punk zombies and necro punks? If so, I go for the punk zombies. They have paired katanas with a Cb 7, they have Hard to wound, and a Df 5. Which is actually pretty high for this game. When it comes to a comparison, both the punk zombies have Rot and flurry. When it comes to wounds I think the punk zombies edge out the necropunks. The punks have 6 woundw tih hard to wound 1, meaning that it usually takes 3 hits to kill the punk. Two if the attacker gets lucky on a damage flip. The necros have 4 wounds and hard to kill. Normally 4 wounds isn't great because it's only moderately hard to one-round them, but the hard to kill means it's gonna take two. So if you had to compare them the necros are going to die in 2 hits whereas the punk zombies are going to die in 2.5 hits (round up or down depending on luck). Then once they die, they boh have slow to die so that's a push. But for me it comes down to having the same defence and the punk having better Cb with more damage. They even have the same move, so no bonus for the little necros there. But what this really says is: for the use I intend, the Punk Zombies are better. And my use is to run up and start hurting people. The necropunks really aren't front-line thumpers like the punk zombies. So to use them that way is an unfair comparison. The necropunks are utility models, not good at their two roles but enough to tip the scales. For example, with arachnid and leap, they can pretty much be anywhere. Really, it's arachnid more than leap because of the suit requirement on leap makes this not a totally reliable spell. But the arachnid means that you can divert only 3 soulstones to grabbing the Treasure or securing a table quarter for the reconnaissance misson. That frees up the more bashy stuff to go out and inflict the hurt on people. The leap and the melee powers (flurry, slow to die, hard to kill, overpower) are really the model's secondary uses. If an enemy is in combat with, say, Sebastian or a punk zombie or a flesh construct, then you can send in the necropunk to inflict those last 2-3 wounds to kill the bad guy. It's especially useful if the bad guy and sebastian/punk zombie/flesh construct have both already activated. Because then the enemy has probably burned all his good cards from his hand. So have you, obviously, but if you can get leap off as a zero action and then focus you're doing bonus flips to mitigate that. So really, the question becomes: what role do you have planned for the punk or necro? That'll you the best use of your soulstones.

Actually lots of online retailers, even ones with Ebay stores, will list things as being in stock when they don't have them. The thing is retailers get shipments daily. Often they order something when its getting low and at most they're out of it for a couple days before they get a restock (sometimes within a day). So in that case while it may be actually out of stock when it gets ordered, the restock comes so quickly that you don't realize it and think its just part of the shipping delay. To go in and list things as being out of stock in that case is a waste of time that could spent on things like processing the restock. I know a lot of companies do this. If you think of it that way, then frpgames' post makes sense: they expected to get a restock that never materialized and so there's this delay between charging and shipping. Now, I'm not saying that they shouldn't refund the money if you ask. I'm just saying that this process is not unique to FRP games and we should keep that in mind before we start grabbing pitchforks and torches.

This is very interesting, because I've ordered from FRP games for years and have never had a problem with or heard of anyone having a problem with them. I do know that they have had trouble keeping Malifaux in stock (everybody has), but I've had very good experiences with them.

Really, no one has any thoughts? Really? :hmpf:

Really, 3 necropunks instead of 2 punk zombies? I dunno. Those punk zombies seem a much better use. And Mortimer with Seamus? Seems so gauche for a man of such class. . .

Yeah, I'm just planning on needing to cheat & burn a soulstone for Arise My Sweet. But Seamus does come with 2 for free, so I see that as 2 belles summoned. Do you think a couple of extra soulstones is better than having another flintlock? Conversely, I could have the Grave Spirit and 1 extra Soulstone. Maybe have my 35 SS crew be: V1: Seamus, Sybelle, 3 Belles, 3 Punk Zombies. 2 SS left over (4 total) V2: Seamus, Copycat Killer, Sybelle, 4 Belles, 2 Punk Zombies. 1 SS left over (3 total). V3: As above but swap Grave Spirit for Copycat. Gives 2 SS left over (4 total). Yeah I'm thinking that 3 of them will allow me to peel off enemy models in the early turns. Cast Lure a bunch of times and then with any spare APs I have use Undress on the lured model or Distract to slow people down in the early stages of the game.

Which, according the current understanding of the rules, is not voluntarily blowing himself up... :tongue1: :tj: (Yep, I'm on this train. I have a friend who can translate Latin. I will pull a Cato the Elder on this one! :vb_tongue )

Again, I only played one game, so not the greatest sample size. But I can see the Ortegas turtling against some of the bashy armies out their and then rushing forward in the later turns if the need the center of the turn. In that case, it's possible that Nino is in range of somebody. But yeah, at best you're "only" going to get 3-4 of them. :

Oh come on, group hugs are for pansies. Real men solve their problems this way: :fight: :vb_cheers :friday: For what its worth, I'm all cool with extreme RAW. And I'm okay with Mortimer's spell. He's not a corpse counter generator. He's a thug who during one of the off the turns might generate a random counter. Then he can leave it there for Nicodem to later come along and raise something with it.

Since I'm one of the participants in the "Cheating Fate" conversation, which has grown a bit heated and probably long since ceased to be helpful, I thought I'd do some public service and change the subject: I have a Seamus box on order from my FLGS (c'moooooon restock!!). I'm wondering what to get to take them from their 20 SS to 35SS and maybe even 45. Obviously, the crew will include Seamus, Sybelle, and 3 Belles. That's 20 SS. I'm thinking of adding Grave Spirit instead of the Copycat Killer as a totem. Seamus's spells are really difficult to cast and I just don't foresee Cheating Fate to get them off. Too many other potential uses. So whichever route I go, I'll be using the totem for its other abilities primarily. The Copycat Killer's flintlock is nice, but taking wounds limits it. Yeah I could probably cast Live for Pain to get some wounds back but again, that's an 11 I need to pull that off. That's only a little over a 1-in-5 chance. Then again, three shots is the majority of the game (assuming 1-2 turns of maneuvering). And then I only need to cheat once to heal two wounds through Live for Pain (assuming the resist fails). The Grave Spirit though costs 1 SS for essentially Armor 2, which is nice value. The only downside is it only affects undead, so I can't link him with Seamus. Which makes sense, because that'd just be sick. Still, link him with Sybelle and she's a pretty good tank. Even better, if there's a fight where I simply need someone to hold the line I can walk this guy over and have him link up with that Belle who needs to not die. And since he's a companion, I could do it and still have seamus to run around before my opponent can retaliate. So what do you think? Go for the extra shooty with the Copycat or extra durability with the Grave Spirit? What I know I'll be adding are two punk zombies. They'll add some punch that's desperately needed. That's a good 10 SS right there. I was also thinking about taking a Hanged. I just wonder if its worthwhile. On the surface, he seems just the right complement. Between Horrifying, terrifying, and the ability to knock off half a model's wounds (so the belles can finish the model off), he just seems a good fix. One of my early ideas is to include Sebastian and two Canine Remains. Mainly for the mini-alpha strike but also to be a backup for the belles. He can heal them or inflict some serious hurt. But it just doesn't feel right, I mean, he's McM's guy. And besides, I can't see Seamus, a man of true class, running around with someone like Sebastian. He's just such a . . . prol. So,some quick ideas for crews are: 30SS: Seamus, (Copycat Killer/Grave Spirit) Totem, Sybelle, 3 Belles, 2 Punk Zombies. 35SS: Seamus, Sybelle, 3 Belles, 2 Punk Zombies, 1 Hanged. 45SS: Seamus, (Copycat Killer/Grave Spirit) Totem, Sybelle, 3 Belles, 3 Punk Zombies, 1 Hanged. The 30 & 35 SS crews leave me without any soulstones, and I get the feeling I might need them to resurrect some Belles. The 45 SS gives me 3 more soulstones, which feels like enough. Any thoughts? Am I way off base here?